Tipping on Wine

Well, Ian, I haven't been myself, but I think I recall from a friend that FL adds a 18% service charge to check. Any tip you add to that is up to you. :)

. I hope to going to the French Laundry

Well, I was referring to normal situations. I have on one occasion in memory left zero tip (a waiter in NYC who was downright offensive), and on one occasion left less than 10% (a waitress who was so busy talking to friends that obviously fresh cooked dishes were cold- actually that meal was quite memorable, I think of it every time I play the Fountains of Wayne song "Halley's Waitress").

The lower end of the scale I referred to implied someone who was at least trying.

cheers, Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

This discussion re service, and Ian's dissing of goat, prompted me to look in my archives to find a review I wrote for friends of a Caribbean place that we ate at in Tarrytown NY a few years ago:

Konstantin came up with a great idea- trying out the new Caribbean place in Tarrytown. We decided on tonight (contingent of course on the baby waiting, as Lauren is 8 1/2 month's pregnant). Little did we know that the baby was not the only one destined to wait.

I've never done a timeline before, but this review needs one. Times are approximate, but overall time is accurate.

7:00 Konstantin and Lauren arrive on time for our reservation. 7:05 Betsy and I arrive. We say "what a nice place". Exposed brick, pictures of reggae artists and more on walls, nice bar, etc. We peruse menu, chat. What a pleasant evening. 7:10 Waiter asks for drink orders. I order a Red Stripe, Betsy says she'll wait. 7:15 Drinks arrive. Waiter returns, takes our orders. A little peculiar - he starts with Lauren (stuffed red snapper), moves to Konstantin (goat curry), then seems to go into a trance staring between Betsy & I. I break the spell by asking Betsy what she wants, she orders the wo bo (menu says "it's pronounced 'wooh bo', which wasn't especially helpful). I order the oxtails. We all get rice & peas (rice & beans), except Lauren wants pumpkin rice. Betsy asks for a white wine, they offer a chardonnay and a Trimbach pinot blanc (nice choice, Betsy goes for it). 7:20 What a nice place. We're having a good time, talking of teens, teaching, and more. Dissing Dubya and having fun. 7:35 Our soup arrives. Soup? "I didn't want you to get hungry waiting for your appetizers" says waiter. Huh? Anyway, it's a brown soup : a little meat, a little potato, Konstantin has a dumpling/gnocchi in his. Tasty enough. 7:45 Soup is done. Waiter asked Betsy if she'd like something to drinkl. She says "the wine I ordered would be nice." He says"you would like a wine? What kind?" 7:50 Betsy's wine arrives (it's nice). The von Krusenstierns are nice people to have a leisurely meal with! 8:00 The appetizers arrive! Nice peppery sauce with the conch fritters, plantains are good (though I like the unripe ones, which aren't as sweet as these). 8:15 We're having fun! 8:30 Uh oh, a problem! Waiter comes- there's been an accident. Lauren's snapper has burned, and there isn't another! She orders the ackee and saltfish. Waiter says 10 minutes. We all continue the fun conversation! 8:40 I visit the men's room. Spacious and clean. 8:50 Here's comes the dishes! Konstantin gets his goat, Lauren her saltfish & ackee. Plus their sides of rice & peas. Uh, Lauren ordered pumpkin rice- she must have gotten one of our sides. Dishes for Betsy & myself will be RIGHT out.

9:00 Waiter's back. Looks serious. They're out of oxtail. WHAT!?!?!?!?!!??!! Two hours after I ordered! I say "bring me anything, whatever's ready." He says "what?" I say "just bring me the fastest thing you can." We tell K & L to just start. We sample the goat (pretty tasty) and eat rice and peas (dry, a little too much allspice)-

9:10 My jerk chicken arrives. Really good, if pretty mild, swimming in sauce. Betsy's will be right out. 9:20 Betsy's wo bo arrives. Lots of peppers & onions in a good mild pepper sauce, with grouper, lobster tail, and shrimp. Pretty good, except the rubbery shrimp taste like they've been cooking since 8:15. 9:30 we start trying to signal for check. Waiter avoids our eyes. 9:35 Gotcha - give us our check! 9:45 Where's our check? "Being prepared" 9:50 Konstantin & I stand. Bartender asks "can I help you?". Konstantin says "we want to leave". Bartender asks waiter for check, waiter says "you have it."

9:58 Bartender has been adding check for 7 minutes. I want to jump over bar, I could calculate pi to 100 decimals in this time.

10:00 Hurrah! The check!!

OK, food was OK. But thank god company was good- I would have died if it was a meal with *ssholes. We rushed back to where Kris K was at our house waiting (bringing Kevin for our ski trip tomorrow AM). This is the official slowest meal I've ever eaten in a restaurant that wasn't some multi-course extravaganza or wine dinner. 3 hours! Let's hope Lauren's labor is faster!

Beware Caribbean time, Dale

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Restaurant wages are allowed to be below "minimum" because with tips, most wait people will *at least* reach minimum (I beleive it was based on an average tip of 8%, but don't quote me on that). Now, if a wait person cannot average 8%, then forget about the unions, he/she should be pursuing another profession.

Before you calculate your tip Ian, look at the bill to see if it is already included. I think the French Laundry does include the tip in the bill for a party of five or more. I believe that as many as 5 waiters made a visit to our table last year. I have been to many restaurants with better service but the FL is kind of a package deal with service, food and wine almost in one piece. While you are in the area, lunch at the CIA. It is about food. Chez Panisse in SF is a place that should be near to your heart since they specialize in very fresh veggies.

Hopefully you will not have to endure the type of service that has become overly popular in the US. "Hi, I am Taffy and I will be your waitress". Or "the grilled halibut is my favorite dish on the menu" when you wanted to know if it was fresh. Marketing research has shown restaurants that the personal introduction by Taffy and putting the check in a holder with a name on it such as American Express can bring a higher tip.

Ricardo, I have no idea about Portuguese wages, but US$14,000 is a *very* low wage in the USA. It is, in fact, the *official* "poverty level" for a family of 3 (median income in the USA in 2002 was ~US$42,000), which is widely regarded as being a ridiculously low number. So, an income of US$14,000 is insufficient to support a family of 3 and would even present a single individual with problems. Consider that, in most US cities, rent for a single bedroom apartment can cost over US$1,000 per month. That would mean that someone earning US$14,000 per year would either have to live in substandard housing or commute from long distance or live with other people or be homeless :(

Mark Lipton

Chez Panisse is in Berkeley on the other side of the bay from San Francisco. To bring this on topic, they add a 15% service charge.

I thought he was just 'kidding' around.....

Hahahaha union. There isn't nor will there be a union for waiters where I live.

Is there an antigoat to this kind of humour?

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

O-pun my word - is there no end to this pun-ishment?

Bleat me, bleat me, make me suffer - I'm chevre-ing with anticipation at your next post......

Ewe, real bad, this has goat to stop. There should be a ban-on this. No need to angora-ge this behaviour on the net.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Now you are trying to ram it home with a sheep shot - time to take it on the lamb!

Oh-vine as much as you want, mutton's gonna change my mind about this. We give you some space on the newsgroup, and you just hoggett. Find some udder place for these puns.

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

No Brian, virtually every undesirable trend in this countries short history has started out of the Beehive, in your stormy city!! :-))

(To non-kiwis, sorry for the in-joke - the Beehive is our equivalent of The Whitehouse!!)

Don't catch cabs; wife cuts hair (now, that is expensive!!); doormen? - only in Wellington!!; bars? - come Brian!!;

IMHO the general standard of service in NZ is crap - in retail; in restaurants; in cafes - and part of the reason for that is that the person who "couldn't care less" is paid exactly the same as someone who seeks excellence. We reward mediocrity!!

I have no hesitation in personally thanking a waiter or waitress for professional service of the highest order and actually commenting on their assistance and expertise.

That way, those people are encouraged to make a career in the hospitality industry, rather than drift into some aimless occupation like the Public Service :-)))))))

Oh yes, by the way, the weather here on the Hibiscus Coast this morning is sensational; not a cloud in the sky - a zephyr of a breeze in the palm trees.

Why, I may even go to work today - yes, I have a couple of clients at some of Northland's beaches who are overdue a visit.

in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, Ian Hoare at snipped-for-privacy@angelfire.com wrote on 8/19/04 6:19 AM:

Not sure I get your point here at all. I was merely reflecting the experience of people I know who find it difficult to get full-time hours at restaurants. Most, I believe, have a core staff but 'fill in' with shorter-hour people for the most part.

I think this is getting blown a bit out of proportion. My post was only in response to the suggestion made here that 'standard' service should deserve no tip at all.

If you can comfortably run your business making $3 an hour.... more power to you. By the way.... you do sound refined, capable and educated.... so look what we get for just $3 an hour. (-_-) I assume you really do anticipate your guests needs to some degree, or you wouldn't have many. I also prssume that there are a few benefits to your business that you left out.

Are you saying that restaurants categorically can't afford to pay staff more than what are poverty wages in the US? (See other posts here on that subject) If that's the case then I'm glad we have a tipping system here. Except, of course, if everyone tipped only 5% for adequate service.....then we'd need something more.

I know that. I'm not minimizing people's problems, and I apologise if anyone read it that way. I started tha PS by saying "I know it's not comparable"

It was just a way to illustrate a little more the subject.

Minimum wage here is around 350euros/mo = 420USD/mo = 5880 USD/year (considering 14 months salary) But it's a great country to live on. Gentle people, marvelous food, great wines! :-)

If enough people took your position, Ricardo, and stopped tipping, the wage for wait-service would cease to be $2.13/hour, even in Kentucky. Minimum wage or not, employers have to attract workers to fill positions, and would have to pay much more than $2.13 base pay.

Tom Schellberg

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:32:40 +0200, tu disais/you said:-

If you two old deers dont pack it in I'm going to start really beefing.

I hope you're duly cowed.