TN: A Viognier bargain :)

Voignier on it's own just will not cut it. It's like eating corn on the cob with no butter or salt. I tried a few over the last year or so and I keep getting the same results that I have had with unoaked Chardonnay. Oak is a necessity for these two wines.

Thanks for the notes.

Sean

Sean, Certainly our tastes are at odds here, but I would also caution you about judging Viognier: there is an awful lot of bland, insipid stuff marketed in CA under that grape name. The wine in question is one of a handful I've had from CA (Garretson, Calera, RH Philips being 3 others) that actually got the fruit right.

You're most welcome, Mark Lipton

Sorry Mark, but I agree with Sean to a great extent. Most of the Viognier I've tasted hasn't held a candle to Pinot Blanc, Pinot Grigio, Sauvignon Blanc or Gewurtztraminer - much less Chardonnay. I don't think it's a question of oak; IMO Viognier just isn't as noble a grape. The best I've tasted have certainly been pleasant, but never compelling.

Tom S

A tasting group that I participate in on an irregular basis (because the group gets together on an irregular basis) did a viognier tasting a year or so ago and we found a good bargain in the Yalumba viognier (don't recall what vintage it was). It came in second, slightly behind the best (unfortunately, I don't recall what that one was) but was about half the price of that one. IIRC, all the others were California, but I'm almost certain that none were any of the ones Mark mentioned.

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We'll just have to agree that our tastes don't match here, at least as far as Chardonnay. Unoaked chardonnay doesn't cut it? Personally, I'll take Chablis from Picq, Brocard, or Louis Michel any day. Or Brun's Beaujolais Blanc. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate a Ch. Montelena Chardonnay or a Girardin white Burg (or even a Kistler!), but I certainly wouldn't call oak a neccessity.

As to Viognier, my favorites have been unoaked Condrieus. But when it comes down to it, it's just not my favorite grape. I actually have zero in my cellar, having drunk the last Gilles Barge Condrieu. I always initially love the aromatic floral nose, but when it comes down to it, I drink wine with food, and seldom does Viognier enhance.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

You expressed my thoughts regarding viognier exactly, except that I've not sure whether I've ever had an unoaked Condrieu.

What about starting a thread about blending, and sometimes co-fermenting, viognier with syrah? I know that this is often done but most of the time when I tell someone about it, it comes as a surprise to them.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Vernay and Niero (sp?) are first 2 that come to mind. I think Gilles Barge has a light hand with oak. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

I'll concede that a good Chablis can be very enjoyable, but IMO the synergy between Chardonnay and French oak is more intense than in any other wine/wood combination. IOW, 1+1=3 (or more). Extended lees contact seems to be essential to make the most of this fusion.

Tom S

LOL!! Well put, Mark [S.]. It shares, with Pinot Noir, that resemblence to the little girl with the little curl... ;-)

This reminds me that someone (probably Hugh J.) advocates the match of Condrieu with bouillabaise. Haven't tried it, though, as I rarely buy Viogniers because of the poor hit/miss ratio. However, at the moment I have 3 waiting to be consumed (another Phelps, Garretson and Arrowood), so I'll have to consider all the options. Fortunately, I know all 3 wines, having tasted each, and they're stylistically similar: big, unoaked and with good acidity.

Thanks, Mark Lipton

I have not had much Viognier in the past few years. I did have some Ch. Grillet in the 70's and 80's and found it greatly overpriced for what it had to offer me. I remember some Guigal Condrieu 1989 that was quite decent and not nearly as expensive as Ch. Grillet.

Does Quipe still make Viognier in California? I had some Quipe Santa Barbara, Los Olivos Vineyard Viognier 1991 in the past. It was rather good, and, as do most of the Santa Barbara whites, it had plenty of acid. Quipe was a small operation then and I had to special order it from a California wine store shortly after it was released.

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Yes, I mean Qupe. The price was much lower when I bought mine, but so was the price of most other wines. I have tasting notes for the 89 somewhere, but any unopened bottles likely are much too old now.

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Two good Viogniers that I have enjoyed in the past are Chateau Julian from Monterey County and Horton from Virginia and I am sure they are both cheaper than Qupe.