What shape is a port decanter?

One would think Riedel would make a special port decanter, if anyone did. View the many decanters at

And not for another reason: A wide bottomed decanter opens the maximum surface area to air, for a port surely you will be looking for a bulb shape as the decating is not to "air" but to filter out crud?

pk

Did the person that asked you to give a port decanter have a reason for asking for this particular item? Did the receiver of the gift "wish" for a port decanter or perhaps want one without knowing whether one decants port? A nice decanter can be something that if a person does not have a specific wish for will find its way to ebay or the Salvation Army.

DH graduated from an academy and I bought a Waterford decanter with glasses (ships type decanter.) It has set for years, gathering dust.

I like a small glass of port occasionally with chocolate. I pour it out of the bottle. It will keep. Unless one likes the beauty of the decanter with the port in it, it seems to me a waste otherwise, unlesss the person has a bar to display most of the time.

Good luck, Dee

Dartington make a good classic decanter for port — you may even find a decent second if you have seconds outlet shop near to you.

We were given two for a wedding prsent years ago but they make the same classic shape still.

Tim Hartley

I put up an image of a decanter (likely Moser) from the late 1800s. This shape is one I like, but many would consider the decoration too ornate today. This type of Bohemian glass was extremely popular in the late 1800s and the early 1900s. It is sometimes difficult to be sure of the exact maker, because there often were not identification marks. However only a few Bohemian glass makers were capable of making a decanter of this quality. The decanter started off with a layer of ruby glass over clear glass. Then ruby glass was cut away in areas where you see clear glass. In addition a very detailed pattern of gold was applied over the clear area. The ruby glass appears to be gold glass, which gets the ruby color from small amounts of gold added to melted clear glass. Moser glass was found in palaces, the Vatican, and homes of the very rich. In the late 1800s, the glass was considered much as a canvas was - something to be decorated all over. People were not much interested in the color of wine. Those who could afford such fine glass usually had plenty of servants to make sure they were served only wine and food in top condition, and examination of the wine often was left to a butler or other servant. The preference for very plain clear wine glasses is relatively recent.

A url might help! See

One point that has not yet been raised in this thread: if the point of the decanter is to store Port for a long (> 1-2 hours) time, the decanter should _not_ be made of leaded glass. Studies have shown that the Port will leach the lead out of the glass and within a few weeks will reach dangerous levels. The shape, IMO, doesn't really matter much.

Mark Lipton

Decanters often used to have movable labels so you knew what was in which one. This suggests to me that there is no traditional shape for a decanter of any specific wine. Make sure you get a decanter with a stpopper though - as opposed to a wide mouthed jug for decanting wine into. Howver undesirable, unfinished port was (I believe) often kept in the decanter on the sideborad, so a stopper woudl be required to keep dust, flies, etc out.

I'd assume that someone who is looking for a port decanter is intending it for Vintage Port. Which certainly should be decanted (I probably average a 1/3 cup of sediment in an average VP, and even a lighter 20-30 yr vintage can often use several hours of air). But which has a few day lifespan once open. I don't use any particular shape- I use a very wide captains decanter if I think it needs lots of air, a "standard" Spiegelau decanter otherwise.

Perhaps in the UK at one time, it was a custom in many households to always have Sherry, Port, Scotch, and perhaps Cognac in decanters ready to serve at a moment's notice in glasses that were kept nearby. However in the US and many other countries, port has not been as popular as in the UK in the past, and not a lot of vintage port was consumed. More often than not, except for opened vintage port, fortified wines were kept in their bottles at a bar area along with spirits. In the early history of the US, Madeira was the most popular fine fortified wine.

Although many think of fine crystal as high lead content crystal, this is a modern idea that perhaps dates from the time when perfectly clear wine glasses that sparkle became popular. The traditional Bohemian and Italian glasses of the highest quality did not usually contain lead. Their composition was somewhat varied. Considerations included expansion stability, because 2 or 3 glasses of different color often were layered and then cut to reveal various color patterns. The Italians often needed a glass that would work with small gold flakes in it. The surface of the glass needed to engraved with ease. The surface needed to bond well with enamel, including subtle translucent enamels. The surface also needed to hold gold well. Often patterns were first engraved or etched on the surface, and then these were filled in with gold to give a 3D effect. Uranium glass was very popular at one time. A bit of uranium gives a shade of green that was very popular. Old uranium glasses still can be found. They are easily detected with a radiation counter. I don't know if some uranium would leach out of uranium glass or not with long exposure to wine or spirits. Moser, especially, used several rare earths to produce glass of very unusual colors.

I've never heard that before and we are port drinkers. We buy port and put it down for a few years, we open a bottle and pour it into the decanter, the one with a flat bottom and a long neck. It stays in the decanter until we finish it, usually 4-5 days as we drink it as an aperitif and also with cheese. Our decanters are pure crystal so hopefully we are not poisoning ourselves!!!!

Judith

On May 4, 3:20 pm, " snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com" wrote:

For wine that has sediment, I do not use a decanter at all. I use a wine machine and flush out all of the air from the neck of the bottle with a huge amount of ultra-pure pre-purified nitrogen. The bottle stands up in the machine, and the dispensing tube is then lowered to about 1 inch above the bottom of the bottle. The wine, be it a table wine or a fortified wine such as port, then keeps a long time, and you can dispense a glass anytime without the sediment. When gas rather than wine starts coming out, you can lower the dispensing tube a bit more. Finally, if you do this right, you are left with only an ounce or two of wine and sediment in the bottom of the bottle. You may then filter that if you do not even want to waste what is usually less than you would waste if you decanted. The only thing that comes in contact with the wine is the food grade stainless steel dispensing tube. I have kept wines 50 to 100 years old fresh in this way for up to several weeks.

If by chance the wine needs air, I dispense into a glass and let it stand for a while.Or if I know the wine will all be served and needs air, I may then dispense into a decanter, but this is mainly for looks. A kitchen 32 oz glass measuring cup or a small glass pitcher works just as well - In fact it is more easy to clean if you are going to fill glasses with wine away from the sight of guests.

There is much misunderstanding about what crystal means. For drink glasses, in many countries it means a glass that has at least 25% lead oxide content and even over 30 % for the best crystal. The lead increases the index of refraction and makes the glass sparkle much more than say window glass, especially if it is cut. Also lead glass is easier to cut and engrave than are many common glasses. However some use crystal to mean crystal clear. Some confuse crystal with meaning that the glass is made from pure quartz crystals, but this is not the case. If you cut a glass from a pure quartz crystal, it would be difficult to find a crystal large enough that did not have flaws. Quartz can be melted and made into containers and tubes at very high temperature - glassblowers sometimes use an oxygen-hydrogen flame to work it. However the pure quartz(silicon dioxide) glass is not as attractive as a high lead glass. It does have the advantage that it does not crack easily with sudden temperature change. It is used in laboratory equipment that must withstand extremely high temperatures and sudden temperature changes. Also quartz glass is used in some of the very high intensity metal halide and sodium light bulbs. These light bulbs reach extremely high temperatures and may equal the light output of many ordinary light bulbs. Such lights often are used for outdoor lighting, as they are much more efficient and thus cost much to operate than would ordinary light bulbs.

I can not comment on the possible lead leaching problem. I would have to carefully read the research results and evaluate on what the caution is based. It would depend on how much lead is consumed and the rate at which lead leaves the body. Most likely an adult could tolerate much more lead intake than a young child or especially an unborn child. Nearly everything can have toxic effects in a high enough dose. Good examples are several metals that are required for life, but may be quite toxic in fairly small doses. Some vitamins also are quite toxic if the required intake is greatly exceeded. Unfortunately many such studies are based on far too few samples, do not use proper statistics, do not evaluate differences in age groups, and are not carried out over very long times to evaluate long term effects. Since we do not do such studies by feeding humans large doses of toxic compounds, we are never for sure how well an animal study applies to humans. A good example is penicillin. If certain South American monkeys only had been used to evaluate penicillin , it likely never would have been tried for human use, as it kills these monkeys. Although many antibiotics used for humans can be used to treat South American monkeys, any well trained veterinarian knows better than to give penicillin to them.

Depends how much port you drink stored like this. You'd need to do some googling and some sums. I'm guessing there is a very narrow range of port consumption levels that would give you lead poisening before wrecking your liver. OTOH it hardly seems worth the risk when the alternative is using a lead-free decanter.

Interesting range of responses to this simple shape question. Mostly in the "don't know" category.

The traditional Port decanter is indeed the one with the thin neck and the wide, flat bottom. Go look at all those old British movies and you will see this decanter being passed at all those regimental dinners and around the table in the Manor House.

No reason why you can't serve Port from any shape of decanter but if you want to be authentic, it's gotta be the right one.

Big, useful snip.

Gosh what a lot of information, thank you.

Judith

Steve, I think I may resort to keeping it in the bottle!!!

Says Judith - just off to have a liver function test!!!

It's nice to know that I am right for once when it comes to something to do with wine!!! I have two of these and we do indeed use them, I use the other one for sherry, perhaps someone can advise what shape decanter should be used for sherry??

Judith

snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com wrote on 5 May 2007 11:01:09 -0700:

jl> On May 5, 9:04 am, Steve Slatcher jl> wrote: ??>> On 4 May 2007 13:20:38 -0700, " snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com" ??>>

??>> wrote: ??>>> Our decanters are pure crystal so ??>>> hopefully we are not poisoning ourselves!!!! ??>>

??>> Depends how much port you drink stored like this. You'd ??>> need to do some googling and some sums. I'm guessing ??>> there is a very narrow range of port consumption levels ??>> that would give you lead poisening before wrecking your ??>> liver. OTOH it hardly seems worth the risk when the ??>> alternative is using a lead-free decanter. ??>>

??>> -- ??>> Steve Slatcher

jl> Steve, I think I may resort to keeping it in the bottle!!!

Is there such a thing as a lead-free port or sherry decanter? A Google search proved surprisingly unrewarding!

James Silverton Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

Mark Lipton