Wine List from a local restaurant

I mean fairly large with low end to high end wines. Some Costco's do have better selections than others but all of them have been good.

You mentioned some don't carry wine. I hadn't experieced that at the Costco's in the southwest where they all carry wine.

Thats interesting. In some Costco's here they have a full time wine knowledgeable person helping people with their selections. That person has told me they handle the ordering and selection of wines. It might be that they have to work off a list from HQ, I dont know.

Judith,

In the US, it depends solely on the wine and the restaurant. As has been mentioned, US restaurants range from +100% to 400% markup over their wholesale prices. There are many CA wines here, that are not at all expensive. Also, in US, the restauranteur has to pay inventory taxes on their cellar, pay to maintain, cool, etc. their cellar, and hope to get some sort of return on that investment, for both the general overhead and the personnel to manage it. Some "smarter" restauranteurs are starting to cut these markups, and are selling more wine, and, in most cases, making more money in the long run. Too many studies, have indicated higher profits, when more wine is moved, though some still adhere to obscene markups, thus selling less wine.

Now, I have to comment that in the UK, most US wine, that I have encountered is of a much lower level (remember, wineries such as Mondavi, have several labels and levels of wine) and at horribly inflated prices, especially London. The wines from France are usually a bit lower, than we pay in the US, even given the exchange rate, and the wines of OZ are definitely lower, even in London. I do not know if there are extra import tariffs imposed on US wines, but I would not pay those prices, and for the most part, the examples that I have encountered (even in starred restaurants) would not be consumed by me, at any price. Trust me, we have many, much better wines, than you will most commonly see in the UK.

It is understandable why much of Europe (and the UK especially) has such a low impression of US wines. Maybe someone can shed some light on the importation to Europe/UK, of US wines, and why they are so horribly expensive there. To see Mondavi Coastal Cab for £110 (Savoy House), when it is a poor example and about US$9. OTOH, I get to drink some great white Burgs and just pretend that the £'s are $'s. In the US, anything FR is usually priced much higher, and it's not a tariff issue, but because of the "aura" of the wines.

Hunt

With Costco, is all demographics. When the store opens, the wine buyer gets a list of what the home office, thinks they can move, based on a study of the general buying habits of that area. The buyer can get more/better wines, only if they can justify them.

In PHX, we have several Costcos. The store in Scottsdale (generally wealthy suburb) gets the "full list," depending of availability. The new store, that just opened close to me, gets all but two - I do not recall which they are, but my store has several 1er Cru Bdx, all at en premiere prices, or very close. It saves me having to drive to Scottsdale. The store has only been open for about 18 months, but the buyer says that if things progress, he'll soon have the full portfolio. One store, also near me, has maybe 50% the selection, and it tops out with petite Ch. Bdx., if at all. They just cannot convince the home office, that they could sell these wines, and I do not think that they could either.

We have another store, not too far away, and it's at about 80% of the level, as the Scottsdale store, and the one close to me. Their demographics are really mixed, but they seem to be holding their own.

Hunt

The vast majority of CA wines are not exported. Most wineries in the USA are rather small and don't distribute nationwide let alone over seas. The larger wineries that do distribute are often the lower end. Mondavi does produce wines of all levels but their main production is on the low side such as Woodbridge. Thats why perhaps people in Europe have a low impression of CA wines. A poor selection of the better US wines.

Are there high import tarrifs on USA wines? That might explain the high prices.

I work near the Scottsdale Costco so visit there often. They have the best selection I've found. Cost Plus World Market and A to Z Wines in Scottsdale also has a good selection.

What other metro Phoenix area Costco's have a good selection? The newest one I know of is 101/Cave Creek but their selection isn't all that great.

Some STATES that Costco operates in do not carry wine. If you look on Costco's site, you can see what states that Costco is in that do sell wine; quite a few don't on the states that we travel through going from Virginia to Connecticut.

Dee

Thanks. Our Virginia Costco's have wines that I 'cannot afford' nor would buy if I could because I'm not that knowledgeable 'yet.'

I want to ask you if you know, per chance. I have bought all of the Kirkland wines with the exception of Chateauneuf du Pape (and one other which is a white wine and I'm not interested that much in). The du Pape is unorderable online from Costco from Virginia. Have you or anyone else tasted this Kirkland du Pape and am I missing something. Dee

The 10 or so miles to my nearest CostCo seems like a long way! Mainly because there are 1001 retail opportunities closer than 10 miles for practically everything CostCo sells. I don't think the cost of petrol is the issue - it's more the time. Also, for many things, you DO have to buy in large quantities so storage space comes into the equation.

In many places in the US I think you tend to have larger houses and much less inbetween them - both factors tending to favour making fewer but longer shopping trips.

The cost of petrol is not so much of an issue here in my household, but the time that it takes to shop more often for necessities is THE costly feature in my life. I know some people shop frequently for things that they could keep in larder. Perhaps that is a small part of why people keep wine at hand. :-))

BTW, your Curriculum Vitae is quite impressive. I am always pleased to see a picture. Thanks. Dee

Thanks. We must shop at different Costcos. As I said, my experience is that the selection is small.

Try Costco's in more upscale parts of town. They really do vary from one store to another. Sams Club (Costco style warehouse version of Walmart) also has good wine selections.

I'm sure you're right that they vary. There's one Costco near me, but the other in town (and Sam's Club) are all far, so I get there very seldom.

When I travel I do get into various Costco Warehouse Club Stores and find some treasures. I do find the West Coast locations are much more upscale vs the East Coast.

Regional availablity, demographics. etc.

I have not found any stores here as good as the ones in San Fran or Seattle.

So far the best Costco's for wine I've found are North Scottsdale-Arizona, Santa Maria-California or San Luis Obisbo-California. The worst have been in the Los Angeles region.

Actually, that's the one that I shop at. They have the full portfolio, save two, from the home office. I'll check with the buyer, and find out which two those are. Now, that said, he's not a fan of white Burgs, so I have to twist his arm to get them. He can, but chooses not to. Same with GR Rieslings. He'd rather put in a dozen Chilean wines, than one Montrachet! Still, I have been working on him to improve the selection.

The selection at Scottsdale is a bit better (best in the area), but it's crowded and farther from me. I'd rather have their selection, and go to the store closer to me. Time will tell if "I can have my cake, and eat it too."

Hunt

Dee,

I have not tried any of the Kirkland wines, so I cannot comment. Seems that Mark Lipton tried one, or more, and had some, not-so-great TNs. Maybe he'll chime in. I do know that he knows his CndPs, so he'd be a good resource, if he's tried the Kirkland. I'm more fond of buying from a house, with which I am familiar, and usually go to other sources, on good recs. from folk, whose opinion I value. Maybe they have branded and bottled a good wine, but I would not be inclined to venture there, without someone leading me.

Sorry, Hunt

I agree. The more "local" stores do get a better selection. I used to see some interesting wines in their magazine, but none ever made it to AZ, not even the Scottsdale store.

In Hawai`i, the selection is about what I encounter in the lesser AZ stores, with tons of low-end wine, but enough good ones, to make the stop worthwhile. While I pick up two cases locally, I'm hard-pressed to find 6 in Hawai`i (all islands), that I'm likely to pick up, even if we're there for a month. OK, so I do buy multiples, but the purchases are not that varied.

Hunt