I want wine that screams where it came from...

skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Demand for wine has skyrocketed with increasing affluence and large segments of the population in various countries are exposed to wine in their daily lives. There's an educating process going on - just think of the working class in England or rednecks in Pennsylvania. The potential market volume is huge and vintners best bet is to supply neophytes with easy but good wine. They'll stick with the easy names and go for the recognizable tastes.

Next step will be to demand 'better' wine, with more oomph, i.e. concentrated, alcoholic, chewable wine... That's where Parker comes in... A bit unfair to blame him, though. He specializes in Bordeaux and has rightly critiziced the poor wines made there (and praised the good ones, mind you). No wonder that many vintners scramble to please his tastes utilizing every means to make as much powerful wine as possible (instead of reducing yields, for one thing).

Finally, you get tired from the overblown monstrosities and start to explore nuances, varieties, complexity, interplay of flavors and the effects of terroir and aging.

Let's face it - only a minor part of the population will ever want to reach that level, but 5 per cent of 3 billion people are after all 150 million - there is bound to be a big increase in the supply of wines with individuality, eventually.

Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" wrote in news:4428438c$0$22971$ snipped-for-privacy@nn1-read.tele.net:

Hey! Now wait a sec, there. PA is *above* the Mason-Dixon line... :P

There are rednecks in Canada, too....

"enoavidh" skrev i melding news:Xns97939B56D15DEenoavidhyahoocom@136.142.185.40...

There is for attempting to appear to know more than you actually do :-) What I was having in mind was more like miners in Pittsburgh, eh, any miners there? They would be blacknecks, perhaps?

:-) Anders

Anders Tørneskog wrote:(in part)

I resemble that remark! 8-)

It's true, though, that beer far outsells wine here in PA. Partly, it's just the blue-collar culture of this area (coal mining used to be the life-blood of this state's economy). There are signs of progress, however. I am noticing larger numbers of people at the state wine stores, as well as at the local wineries.

Dan-O

It's just another Norwegian provocation, like those Islamic caricatures : )

Dave

PS Yes, I know that was a Danish newspaper!

Merlot? Chardonnay? Pinot Grigio?

It is possible for many wines to be 'richer' in flavor without being so highly alcoholic and so syruppy.

Precisely, and don't forget about uvaggio...

STEEL workers in Pittsburgh - miners in West Virginia (where you have rednecks AND hillbillies).

Dave

dave snipped-for-privacy@nospamcop.net (Dave Devine) wrote in news:1hcvrs4.1xj5sarpnut34N%dave snipped-for-privacy@nospamcop.net:

That's right! We are yinzers and mill hunks here! ;) d.

enoavidh wrote in news:Xns9793A5479C403enoavidhyahoocom@136.142.185.40:

Actually all of Western Pennsylvania, where I was born by the way, is in Appalachia so we are all hill billies at heart (with the possible exception of the Italian and E. European steelworkers and miners)

I hardly ever miss the country of origin of an Amarone.

Sacerre, Chablis and Chenin from the Loire usually give themselves up, though I did miss a Napa SB, as it fooled me into thinking it was a Loire Chenin.

Burgs are fairly easy to spot, but then maybe DRCs taste like there're from Santa Rita Foothills - NOT.

Vintage and Tawny Port show their origin well.

Just a few that come immediately to mind.

Hunt

Steelworkers from P-burgh. Miners from Schuylkill County (my neck of the woods). Rednecks from everywhere except Philly & P-burgh. Someone once said PA has Philly in the east, Pittsburgh in the west and Alabama in the middle.

Furious

How about the vineyard?

I'm not sure that I am following you on this one. Heck, maybe I didn't follow you on the the first question posed. Are you looking for subscriber's examples of wines that indicate (to them, at least) their place of origin? Or, are you looking for examples (still personal ones) of varietals that indicate their place of origin? Or, is there something major, that I have badly missed?

As for varietals, I'd go with many. When done well, with a desire to bring that sense into a wine (by the winemaker), Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Zinfandel, Nebbiolo, Riesling... the list goes on, and on. I've found many examples of each giving away their specific location - Napa Cabernet Sauvignon Rutherford, for example.

OTOH, many winemakers choose to create a style that doesn't give so many clues to the origin of the grapes. Is that what you are going for?

I'm sorry, but I seem to have lost the intended thread in my confusion.

Hunt

I am complaining about the loss of localization, about making, for example, Merlot in Italy in a style that's identifiably neither Italian nor French, nor typical of the region in which it is grown.

I'm also talking about ripping out indigenous grape vines to plant 'international' varieties (usualy French in origin). In other words, I want wine that is typical of its region and identifiable as such. I want wine whose origin is obvious.

Because so much wine is marketed on the basis of the grape variety (Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Merlot, CS, etc.) there has been a trend for wine-makers around the world to plant these grapes in areas far from where they originated. As we all know, what makes a Burgundy a Burgundy is not merely the Pinot Noir grape. Even more so in Bordeaux, where the uvaggio comprises Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Cabernet Franc.

The appeal to the consumer is one of simplicity. He goes to the shelf and looks for Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, etc. But in doing so he misses the point.

Hunt wrote:

A site of interest:

In article , snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...In article , snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

Yes, I find this to be a bit of a problem. There is little differentiation between many Italian, Languedoc-Roussillon, Chilean, Australian, and US wines. In most cases I'd speculate that the decision, if not directed by, started with the accountants. However, the wine buying public does like their wine simplified and Merlot (Sideways not withstanding) is a big seller, worldwide. I've heard that one of the main reasons is that it is easy to pronounce, but would venture that the two biggest factors are that it is more approachable early and because "everyone else" is drinking it.

Many acres of wonderful old Zinfandel vines have been ripped out to plant Merlot, because the accountants, and bankers wanted it that way – higher yields and greater profit/acre, i.e. ROI. As a big fan of Zins, I find that the grape derives a lot of its character from the vineyard, if the winemaker allows it.

In very many cases, you are correct. Members of the general public, buying wine, do not want to be faced with the prospect of having to know the wine. Most have no clue as to which varietals are likely to be found in a Bdx. blend, and I doubt that 1:1,000,000,000 can tell you which varietal is likely to be more prevalent in which Bdx. blends. Wine-geeks, such as myself, laboriously memorize the classification of 1855 with its addenda. Others, could not care less. My wife, who loves wine, and drinks almost as much as I, only wants wines that she will like. She can navigate most wine lists, and safely order something that she will be pleased with, but doesn't care she has found a bargain in the cellar, a stellar wine that few have ever had, or discovered a new winemaker, before he/she is discovered by the rest of the world. She just wants wines that will please her. Any experimentation with varietals, new regions, etc. will always be initiated by me, or our sommelier. She also buys wines at retail by "shelf-talkers," labels and familiarity with either the varietal, the winemaker, or the region. She will seldom ask for assistance, as she feels that she will be inundated with far more data, than she wants, or will ever need. Though reading the shelf-talkers closely for tasting notes, and descriptors, she doesn't care what the WS says about a wine – points are meaningless to her. I doubt that she would be able to identify Robert Parker, Jr as the publisher of a wine rating guide, and a myriad number of books. This is not a simple woman, however. She is the President/CEO of one of the largest employers in the SW, and manages a US$3B annual operating budget. While she loves wine, she cannot be bothered by all the esoterica, that I find highly fascinating.

Now, while she wants it simplified for her, she also appreciates fine wine, and has been exposed to gallons of it. She's even had several opportunities to experience great wines, and acknowledges that these are "different." She also recognizes "plonk" and tries to never expose herself to it again.

She would quickly pick up a Meursault for dinner, but wouldn't arbitrarily pay the difference for Les Charmes. She knows enough to insure that she will not purchase clunkers, though will not spend enough of her time to go beyond that level. I'd typify her as a high-end consumer of wine, but many steps below " geekdom." She is not swayed by the cute characters on the label, unless the overall design appeals to her. At the other end of the wine consumer spectrum is the person, who will grab a 1.5 ltr bottle of Chardonnay, because it is less expensive than many of the 0.75s on the shelves. For them, the perceived "value," is all that they care about. Well, that and the comfort of a familiar word: Chardonnay... Merlot... They, however, drive the market: lower price, volume production, wine that is totally "safe," (no tannins, not too much acid, pleasant fruit flavors). There is little difference whether the wine comes from Italy, France, the US, OZ, Chile. It's about the volume sold. Winemakers are very often "beholding" to bankers, or investors. These folk want return on their investments, and the bigger, the better. If calling your wine Chardonnay, rather than Corton-Charlemagne will make you much more profit, and your banker is breathing down your neck, you will probably change the name. [Pouilly-Fuissé seems to be a major exception to this. Most people do not realize that it is Chardonnay, and the name is far more difficult to pronounce, than Merlot, but it sells and is known by the vast wave of general wine consumers – go figure!]

Simplification, in, and of itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, the knowledgeable wine consumer should be ready to reward the winemaker, who takes the chance, ignores the accountants, and if all goes well, produces wonderful wines that are an expression of the winemaker's art, and probably will exhibit a strong sense of place. These are the folk, whose wines need to be purchased. These are the wines, that need to have their praises sung to all who will listen, as they usually don't have the ad budgets of a Bronco Wines, etc. In Phoenix, some years ago, every TV station did a featurette on Two Buck Chuck, and sent news teams to local Trader Joes', as consumers carried off nearly every case in stock. Combined, I'd guess that Bronco got about one-half hour of free "advertising," in this market from these pieces. You know, I've never seen 5 seconds on Robert Biale's Black Chicken Zin on local TV! I would rather have one bottle of the Biale BC, than 10 cases of Two Buck Chuck. IMHO, it is the producers, such as Biale,, and the numerous winemakers like him, who need to be championed, supported, and encouraged to make the best wine that they can, regardless of what we have to pay for it.

We'd had some recent R Parker, Jr discussions in the NG. One thing he has done is "championed" wines and winemakers, whose wine HE appreciates. Like Oprah, he has exhibited great influence in the wine market. Whether one agrees with his critique, is another matter. I am not a fan of many of his "darlings," but I cannot deny what he has done for certain wine makers and wine styles. Unfortunately, once he has "anointed" a wine with his praise, it usually sells very, very well. Now, another winemaker, who has not produced wines like those that RP praises, sees this, has been ducking calls from his banker for months, and finally decides to "sell his soul to the devil," and produce a " Parkerized" wine, hoping to sell all he can make, regardless of what his heart tells him to do. Since most winery owners are in a business, and few, though quite wealthy, can afford to produce a wine that will never sell, the marketplace will drive them. If a Parkerized wine sells out, while one that is true to the winemaker's dream doesn't – well, do the math. Unfortunately, we live, more each year, in a globalized world. There is far too much "me too," everyplace you turn. If one motion picture about Spiderman is good, heck, let's do eight! If one fast-food restaurant sells chabata [SP?] bread sandwiches, hey, let's add that to OUR menu too! Parkerized wines are little different – it's about what sells.

The simplification sells. The homogenization sells. The globalization sells. That is one of the reasons that I attend a lot of wine tastings. I want to find out who the great producers are and then support them, because... well because I like their wines!

Hunt