wine menus - worth the price?

My experience with the restaurants around here that have such a menu is that the wines are hardly ever outstanding, but almost always decent.

Yes, probably more often than not. It's usually a good value, and I almost always prefer having smaller amounts of multiple wines, rather than one.

Ed Rasimus wrote: respectfully snipped>

Hi Ed, I also avoid "trendy". To me, trendy refers to folks who have more money than taste, or common sense. I would totally discount any chefs who haven't heard of Julia Child. I'm always on the lookout for restaurants that have good food and a reasonable wine list. In a pinch, I look for "Good eats, good beer". :-)

Dick R.

octane

decideldy

nothing like

What a shame Nils! I thank my stars that I stick to Backficka most of the times!

But seriously its the choice between a rock and a hard place. A small group can only order one or two bottles which are unlikley to match a degustation menu. Wines by the glasses (which is essentially what a wine menu is, without the glamour) are very unlikely to be the better-choice-wines simply because very few restaurant will have the volume to use up bottles quickly enough and/or spend the money to have proper interim storage.

That's (my) theory to it, one will of course have to look at the list and hear about it to make a decision in a special situation.

Cheers

Fortunately, I've had good luck with what I term "Sommelier's Tasting" menus. These have almost always accompanied a "Chef's Tasting" menu. From Charlie Trotter's, to French Laundry, to Aureole, to name a few, I usually try both, if available. In the last few years, I've only had one stinker and that was locally at a WS Grand Award Winner, where they removed the Spigleaus and used "restaurant-grade jelly jars" for the "Sommelier's tasting!" When I asked, I was told that the better glasses were reserved for those having "good" wine. Well, that was definitely the case, as none of these were "good" wines, and at US$65/person + the chef's tasting ~US$125, it was not acceptable. It seemed that the sommelier had gone into the cellar and was cleaning out the junk that salespeople had dropped off - nothing was good (in the jelly jars, who can really tell), and nothing paired with the food served. One out of maybe two- dozen is pretty good odds, or pretty good luck on my part.

I think it is a great idea, BUT should be carefully thought out. It must not be looked at as a way to mark the hell up out of poor wine, and serve it to patrons in the hopes that they will be too dazzeled by the sheer # of items to notice.

To Ed's comments, I have NOT had the orange flower blossom water balloons yet

- maybe next trip to Spain!

Sorry that you had a bad experience right off. Trust me, this can be a good thing.

Hunt

Hi Nils,

Well, here in the hinterlands of North Carolina the concept of a "wine menu" has not yet emerged. The closest is one restaurant that has a huge "by the glass" offering.

The closest thing we have here from time to time is where a restaurant might put on a "wine dinner" where, generally they are pushing the wines of a given distributor as opposed to trulying working to create the right match between wine and food.

I guess it boils down to having some knowledge of the establishment to know if they are truly working on creative wine/food matching or, they are simply doing a gimic to push a distributor's wines or simply trying something new for the heck of it.

Art Stratemeyer ============================

Cellar! Wine Software

One somewhat similar wine list presentation, that I do like, is the "flight," of wines by the glass. Several restaurants go to great lengths to offer 3-4 wines, usually 1/2-glass pours, with themes. In the best examples, the wines go well with the chef's work that day, or that week. A few, will group by geography, or by varietal, or maybe by style, and give one the opportunity to experience many wines, in small servings, with the fare. Most that I have seen are priced at little more than a full glass of any of the wines. This usually adds an element of great fun, to pair with the wine and food.

Just a reflection on a similar idea, Hunt

I'm with Hunt on this, Nils. The concept of the "wine menu" (used in the French sense of the word menu) is still a rarity here, and usually found only in restaurants with a strong interest in wine/food pairings. Charlie Trotter's in Chicago has been doing this for years, and when I partook of it for my 40th B-day, I was duly impressed with both the choices and the pairings. However, I most recently encountered such an opportunity at the restaurant Janos in Tucson (great meal, BTW) and declined it because Jean was not interested in the "tasting menu" and would have been left to fend for herself, wine-wise. Instead, we opted for two half bottles: a 2001 Zind-Humbrecht Wintzenheim Gewürz (Indice 2

- Thank you, Olivier!) and a 2002 Cristom Pinot Noir, thereby allowing us both to avail ourselves of two different, versatile wines for our meal.

Mark Lipton

Ah, the half-bottle list. So nicely done by some, a true after-thought by others. Since I dine most often with just my wife, I look first at half- bottles, then at by the glass, if there is no wine-tasting-menu choice. What a rare find it is to see a really full list of the little guys! Just as you and Jean did, it allows one much more freedom to chose wines based on the course, and not have to try and find the quintessential wine for starters and divergent main courses. I always give a special thank-you to the server, when there is a good selection in the half-bottle list, so they can report that some diners do appreciate the time and the effort on someone's part. It usually indicates that this "someone" is rather serious about the diner's pleasure and about wine. OTOH, it is obvious from some of these lists, that the half is considered a poor step-child, and some even whisk away the good glasses, when a half is ordered, as though that wine is not worthy of better. The good places do it right and usually sell me 3-4 halfs, as though I were ordering a magnum of Ch Latour. I really appreciate that.

Hunt

restaurant

I thought that The Fearrington House in Chapel Hill had a wine menu.

First, Art, a question: NC used to have some interesting liquor laws (I'm going back many years here, so things most likely have changed). How do the state's laws regarding restaurants and wine read? Is there one state distributor, with big list for all restaurants to choose from?

As for the "featured wine," for me a 4 color glossy "table-talker" is usually a bad sign.

Hunt

In message , Ron Lel writes

I've just returned from a week in Barcelona, and had been reading about this one.

Unfortunately, though I'd thought of it, I hadn't followed through and booked the necessary weeks/months in advance to eat in the city's best restaurants (eg, Gaig) so they were fully booked up when I called the day before. Note to self - book the restaurants well in advance of my next visit.

I can however fully recommend Roig Robí on Séneca.