BK Lodi Zin question

I've not changed the yeast for the Old Vine Zin, but I have used Lalvin RC-212 in a few other reds, with nice results.

Here's an old post from Ed Goist on the subject of pH change during cold stabilization. A very interesting wine phenomena. I've had the big drop of pH in wines with low pH before cold stabilization and I'm a believer.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

From Ed Goist, February 2001 In wines with 11 to 13% alcohol cold stabilization will affect pH as follows;

start pH pH change due to cold stabilization 3.20 or less noticeable, substantial decrease in pH 3.21-3.40 slight decrease in pH 3.41-3.60 very minimal change in pH 3.61-3.75 slight increase in pH 3.76 or more noticeable, substantial increase in pH

This is because of the pKa for potassium bitartrate of 3.55 bitartrates are effectively an alkaline substance for a wine with an overall pH of 3.5 or lower, and they are effectively an acid substance for a wine with an overall pH of 3.6 or higher.

When tartrates are removed from wine with a very low pH, an alkaline constituent is effectively being removed and a greater proportion of acid constituents overall will be dissociated. This will cause the pH to decrease.

When tartrates are removed from a wine with a very high pH, an acidic constituent is effectively being removed and a smaller proportion of acid constituents overall will be dissociated. This will cause the pH to increase.

I have put into bulk aging a Selection Estate Lodi Zin kit -- this is the first one I have done and I didn't try anything different other than I didn't fine and I didn't use sorbate. I can't comment in reality for about another year. But I do generally use yeasts that are different to the ones supplied by BK but not always!!!!!!!!!!!!

If by cuvee you mean a EC-1118 equivilent then you can't go wrong by *not* using it. The only reason it's there is that it's a very forgiving, alcohol tolerant and aggressive yeast. Providing it in a kit leads to less problems for the kit manufacturer. Search Google for Scott Labs and look at their descriptions of the various yeasts. No one yeast fits all wines but yeast induced flavours apparently disappear over a couple of years.

Don

Hi Bill

It should be noted here that this is a "tartaric" phenomenon. Kit manufacturers intentionally remove tartaric acid from their kits which places them in the "non-tartaric" category. They do this because they know that their customers have neither the equipment nor patience to perform the additional step of cold stabilizing a kit wine. HTH

PS - For some reason this showed up as part of a thread about BK Lodi Zin on my reader. Which is why I commented on this.

You'll have to forgive my ignorance Don. I have no idea if the cuvee is a EC-1118 equiv. or not. This is my second batch of wine........

Do you have any recommendations as to a yeast that may go well with the Lodi Zin ???

Thanks.

I think it is, kit makers tend to use this champagne yeast because the characteristics are good for guaranteed completion of the fermentation.

There are probably more than a few that would work well but the trouble is finding them in less than pound quantities. I've used RC-212 alot because it's certainly better than the curvee/1118 and more oriented at reds. It's also available in 5 gm packets. Lalvin, which seems to be the only yeast available around here, has about 5 yeasts in 5 gm packets. Look at this chart and some of the links in the left menu bar:

Here is a link for Lalvin yeast at piwine.com

If you live in Ontario, Canada apparently Funk Wines in the Niagara region repackages BM-45 in 5 gm quantities. In the US there may be some re-packager as well but I'm not aware of them. If this is only your second kit, go for the RC-212 if you can find it.

Don

Thanks for the links Don. As it turns out, my local home brew supply sells the Lalvin yeasts. I went there today with my dad and sister cause they each want to do a kit as well. So we picked up another Luna Rosa, and a Washington Columbia Valley Riesling. Both of those kits had a packet of yeast labeled as EC-1118. I did a little more research on yeasts...finding out that the 1118 is used cause it's kinda fool-proof.

Based on the chart from Lalvin, were going to use the RC-212 for both reds, and ICV-D47 for the riesling. If you think the D47 is bad for the riesling let me know, but from what I gathered , it should be ok. This a dry riesling.

I'm guessing that it would be a much better idea to actually re-hydrate the yeast instead of just sprinkling it on top of the must like the directions read???

Don't live in Ontario...but not too far....western NY.

Thanks for the help.

EC-1118 and Red Star Premier Cuvee are both bayanus strains, and pretty similar. However, in my limited experience I've found that the EC-1118 leaves the wine with fewer of the undesirable organoleptic (taste/aroma) properties that I notice with Premier Cuvee.

I did my Lodi Zin kit with the Premier Cuvee -- it was the last kit I did before I started experimenting. I did it pretty much as Trevor did. I wouldn't use Pasteur Red -- I don't think the floral notes it adds or accents would be complementary. I'm not sure what I'd use. Maybe something like RC-212.

Cheers, Richard