Best kits available

Mark,

I buy the Selection Limited edition reds from BK every year, which are 16 litre kits to make 23 litres (5 gals imp or 6 gals US) these kits in UK used to be about £50 each but the price has now risen to £57 each. Last year I bought my first Selection Estate series red -- a Lodi Zinfandel Old Vines red kit at £75 but I only started it in September and it is still sitting undisturbed, bulk aging so I can't comment. In UK there is no other kit as yet available that is of the same quality (or price range). I make much less wine than I used to and make more kit wines -- space in my small flat ( apartment) being the limiting factor. I have been making the Selection series reds for a fair few years now since they first became available in UK.

To be honest I have become increasingly critical of kit reds as time has gone on. I am a type 2 diabetic ( dietary control only) and my consumption of wine has been savagely curtailed and perhaps that is why I am more appreciative of the wine when I have my permitted occasional bottle.

My white wine kits ( at about 1/2 the cost of the Selection red kits) produce far superior wines which are recognisable as from within their varietal grape type. In particular my Muscadet and Sauvignon Blanc are very typical!

The reds -- well as I said, I only have one bottle per week but I am increasingly dissatisfied with the end results of a year bulk aging before bottling. My criticism is, as ever, that "cooked " taste and, increasingly, a lack of character, bland, and lack of tannin. The wines are full of fruit flavour but just not up the comparison with an inexpensive red bought from a good supermarket wine section. I have just sampled my first bottle of limited edition Syrah/Mouvedre made in Spring last year. The blurb on BK's back label states --"..... this elegant red wine is rich and complex, showing strong tannins and earthy character ....." Well no it isn't! Fruity but totally lacking in "strong tannins" and where is that "earthy character". It was like drinking a tepid fruit soup that needed the addition of chilli gin to bring out its flavours. I certainly would not inflict it on any guest of mine. I have checked my records and find that I may not have added extra tannin at the initial fermentation stage. I started doing that with my Selection kits a couple of years ago to try and improve the mouth of my wines and I perceive some benefit -- but it does tend to be a hit and miss affair. My criticism of kit reds is not confined to BK Selection , it is just the Selection kits are ( IMHO) the best available in UK. I think my best result is BK Selection Rioja. One I did about 4 years ago is finished now but after the second year in bottle was probably the best I have tasted but still lacked that "finish"

Sorry this has been so long a response. Perhaps, when a method of colour extraction of red grapes is "invented" that does not involve "boiling" the fruit, the reds will improve.

I just wish I could get red wine grapes and/or fresh red grape juice in UK!

Hope it helps.

Thanks for your reply. I only got the Merlot kit because it is my fathers favorite wine. I plan to start another batch of wine of a white variety and want to get the best kit to start with and then make any additions that people have found help the kit compete with store bought wines.

Mark

increasingly,

BK ( they have renamed themselves "Winexpert Inc" for some obscure marketing reason) Selection Murray River Reserve is excellent and ages well. I can't get it any more in UK!!!

However with white wine kits I mainly use a UK brand called "Beaverdale", ( I suspect made by BK for the supplier in UK since the vendor is the agent for BK products in UK)), which retail at about £33 -- i.e. at about half the price I pay for Selection reds. I am very satisfied with the results I get as I indicated in my previous post.

BK is very good in my opinion, I've tried a few from the top 3 selections:

Mark Winexpert's (Brew King) Estate series is probably the best on the market. I have tried several kits and the BK Estate series is the best. Just go to

Dan

Mark I forgot to add. Besides being just my opinion about the Estate series, Technical Services Manager Tim Vadergrift from Winexpert says it their top of the line kit. Dan

For white wines BK and Spagnols are both good. I personally prefer Spagnols. For red wines, I have not found one that I would recommend.

Ray

Thanks Ray. Have you heard anything about the Spagnols El Primeur kits? They seem pricey but from what I hear you really get what you pay for when making kits.

I racked my BK French Merlot last night and added 1oz of French Oak cubes to start. The directions say to bottle in about 28-35 days, however I plan to bulk age for at least four months. How much extra SO2 should I add in the form of campden tablets to protect it for this long aging?

Mark

As a ball park figure without checking SO2 levels I would add 5 crushed and dissolved campden tablets for 23 Litres. It is important to crush and then dissolve then in a little of the wine. Stir in gently and Bulk age for at least 6 months

I plan to get one of those titator kits when I go to the homebrew store. The only problem is that I have heard the margin of error in those is +/- 30ppm. I'll probably do 3-5 tests and take an average of the results.

Mark

Not that much, they are more in the 10-15ppm margin of error and on the + side.

Séb

Yes, I tried one of their high price kits a couple of years ago and did not feel that it was any better than the Cellar Classic kits I have made. But then it might have been me or the one kit I tried. One kit is not much of a test. What I can say is that I have made a number of their Cellar Classic kits and been very happy with them. I have not made any in the last year as it is hard for me to get them here in Houston. In fact I remember the name being Cellar Craft rather than Cellar Classic but that may be my bad memory. My favorites have been the Gewürztraminer and Johannesburg Riesling. I have made several batches of each.

Ray

"Pinky" wrote

important to crush and then dissolve then in a little of the wine. Stir in gently and Bulk age for atleast 6 months

1. What would happen if you added the «powder« to the carboy and stir it well; would it not dissolve as well?
2. Why stir gently? When degassing, isn't better to stir like mad; isn't it the idea with the Fizz-X?

TIA, Guy

1. I dissolve them separately to ensure that they do actually dissolve completely and don't have any larger bits to lay dormant at the bottom of my carboy. Certainly the type I use are not the easiest things to reduce to a fine powder.

1. I degas by long term bulk aging and just don't believe that beating the hell out of a new wine does it any good

Then I presume you keep the airlock on during that time to degass the wine... for how long and at what temperature do you bulk age?

TIA, Guy

Cellar Craft and Cellar Classic are not the same. The former is a company, the latter is a line of kits by RJSpagnols.

I haven't sampled any of my better red kit wines in a month or two, but when I did my BK Lodi Zinfandel was the best of the stuff that's had decent aging (more than 2 years) while the Cellar Craft Washington State Merlot was younger but looking to surpass the Zin by a bit.

Better than both is the only white kit I've done, the BK limited edition Oregon Pinot Gris. My wife and I both have Pinot Gris as our favorite white and Pinot Noir as our favorite red varietal. This Pinot Gris kit definitely compares well to decent (but not top-line) commercial wines, but I've never found a Pinot Noir kit that has even a hint of real Pinot Noir varietal character -- including the BK North Coast Monterey kit.

My general impressiCheers! Richard

Thanks for clarifying the names and congealing my memory. I know what I made was Spagnols so it must have been Cellar Classic. I cannot comment on the Cellar Craft.

Ray

Trevor, Aren't there a number of vineyards in England now especially in the South or are they all whites? I would think you should be able to skip across the channel at the right time to get way better grapes than are available to us in most of North America. One day ferry passes are suppose to be cheap or so I've heard from some relatives.

Don

I am aware that one or two of the English vineyards do sell small quantities of pressed grape juice. The one I have seen is only available occasionally and is a white wine variety. Most of the wine produced in England is white although one or two vineyards make a red. I don't know what they are like.

However I have tried reds from the Loire valley on my tours in France but to be honest they are what I would call " slurping" or "gulping" wines and lack the robustness, flavour, bouquet and body of wines produced further south.

When I visit France ( I have friends living in the Dordogne area) I inevitably bring back completed wine rather than grape juice. I use "Cubitineres" of 20 litre capacity and treat the wine with sulphite to permit the usual 4 day journey back toward home.

However this year my trip to Europe was my pilgrimage from home to Santiago de Compostella in northern Spain -- all the way ( 2340.4 km) by bicycle -- and camping all the way -- 7 weeks in all, in April and May. I actually cycled round the edge of Bordeaux and also through the heart of Rioja in Spain but my bike was already loaded to the limit and I couldn't manage even case of wine ( my 2 litre collapsible water bottle in my rear pannier was however filled with the local wine of the area as I travelled )