I'm trying to pick up the positive aspects of stem inclusion with a
> batch of pinot noir without much of the negative bitterness. Ideally
> the stems will completely mature on the vine, but that's not going to
> happen this time. So I was thinking to completely destem the bunches,
> cold soak the grapes for 5-7 days, mature the stems, and then put some
> of them back in for fermentation.
If you want stems in the fermenter, why not just dump some whole clusters in for the cold soak?
Tom S
*Would* they actually mature is what I'm wondering. I'd just either partially destem (like 90%) before the cold soak, or else put some whole clusters in the fermentation and conduct delestage (rack and return, screening out the stems after a given time period as taste indicates).
Ben
Stems aren't mature enough and will give green/bitter component if I threw them in as is. If they were nice and dark tan/brown then I'd put some whole clusters in.
The thought is by holding them back during the cold soak I can get another week of stem maturing and maybe even accelerate this maturing by treating the stems in a particular fashion (cooler, warmer, etc.).
Put them under you pillow. That's probably your best bet.
Bob
:)
Maybe I don't see the point of your wanting to include stems at all.
When I've added them to my Pinot Noirs in the past, I _wanted_ some of that green flavor. I feel that it can add an interesting component to the flavor profile of the wine. Extended maceration and fining help to moderate that effect; you certainly don't want that to be the dominant note of the wine, but a little adds a spiciness that I find rather appealing.
OTOH, if flavor enhancement (via stem addition) is not your objective, may I assume that you want stems in there only as a pressing aid?
Tom S
The concensus seems to be that immature (green / pale brown) stems are not suitable for maceration whatsoever. There is a difference between using an underripe stem (immature tannins) and gaining "green"/stem character from mature stems.
I'm interested to hear (if you are actually saying this??) that you have used under ripe stems successfully with EM.
Ben
Only in Pinot Noir, and many times. In recent vintages, I've cut back to ~10% total stems and shortened post fermentation maceration to less than a week, but extended pre-fermentation contact via cold soaking. That was approximately my handling in the 2000 Pinot Noir.
Tom S
Green/tan stems = astringent, green flavors. Brown stems = spicy clove, cinammon flavors. I want the latter. The problem is that my Russian River fruit is likely going to have tan stems when it comes in next week. So I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to completely destem and mature the stems while the grapes do a cold soak.
Michael Brill wrote "my
I've been following this thread for some time. I would think that once you pick the grapes any change in grape or stem maturation would be over. I don't know for sure but I doubt that the stems would continue to mature once they are removed from the vine.
Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas
My ripest chambourcin ( at about 19.5 brix) has stems which are 1/2 brown, 1/2 green. All green stems have brix at about 15. Tim
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