Re: Wild grape vines

I moved to my current home in Maryland in late 1996 and discovered an old vineyard of Concord and other grapes which had been let go. The supports had fallen down years ago and the vines were spread out over the ground and tangled like a demented octopus. I had to cut away about 2/3 of the vines to get to the point where I could identify the individual plants, then rebuilt the support lines. I got a fair yield the next Fall but it took two years before they got into full production.

Are the vines on your property or out in the wild? If they're on your back forty, you might want to put the time and effort into building your own vineyard, the way I did. If they're out on common grounds, you might not want to put that much effort into the project. Still, you could trim them back and prop them up a bit; that should increase your yield. Do a web search on vineyard care and maintenance; there are a lot of good sites with information on rehabilitating and maintaining vines.

Paul

Kathi, if they are grapes, they are edible. Get a good book on edible plants in your region (every library I've ever been in had one) and compare the leaves to what is in the book.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page

"rad0" wrote in news:dEjXa.59419$YN5.46104@sccrnsc01:

I am not the original poster, but I have wild grape vines growing all over spots of my property. Its very unlikely that cutting the vine at the ground will kill it. It will come back with new shoots fairly quickly, probably within a couple or three weeks. Nothing short of a weed killer like "Roundup" will kill a wild grape vine.

If you want to kill it, go buy some Roundup.

If, on the other hand, you merely want to grow a decent vine and see if you can produce some grapes on it, and assuming you are starting with one of your monster vines, I'd cut it down to about a foot from the ground, let it produce shoots, and then select the best shoot and start proper training. I'd also select one of the vines that is on the smaller side, since "larger" usually also means "older". Your best bet is also to select a vine that is already producing grapes, even stunted ones. In wild grape vines, there is both a male and a female plant, and they don't both produce grapes. It would be a shame to put a couple of years in to a vine only to find out it can't produce.

David

Try your extension agent, nursery operators, or other winemakers in your area. Someone knows what they are. You just haven't asked the right person.

Well, that describes 95% of all wild grapes :-)

Okay, here are the steps to identifying wild grapes. But you need to know up front that you will have to go to the library or bookstore and get a good book on identifying native plants in your region, area or state.

The very FIRST thing you look at is where you are (you still have not taken the hint and told us). If you live in an area where both Muscadinia and Euvitis grapes (see next paragraph) live, then your next step is to decide which division your grapes fall into. If you don't live in such an area (and since you haven't told us we can't help you there), then you can skip the next step.

Then you look at the tendrils (look at several, not just one). If the tendrils are simple (a single tendril from stem to tip), it is one of the Muscadinia species (Vitis rotundifolia, Vitis Munsoniana, Vitis Popenoi). If not -- if the tenfrils are forked -- it is one of the

26-29 Euvitis species of North American native grapes. (See for difference in the two divisions of America native grapes, or for a wider discussion).

Next look at berry size. Your reference book will almost certainly show pictures or drawings of the berries of the various grapes featured. Obviously, if your grapes have small berries, you can skip over all grapes in your book that have large berries. In other words, zero in on the relevant. Some grapes produce bunches, while others produce clusters of few berries. Eliminate those that don't fit what yours look like.

If you had enough experience, you could do a quick sort by bark color and texture, but since that evidentl;y doesn't apply we'll skip it.

Next -- and this is what it all comes down to -- you have to compare the leaves. Some grapes have very similar leaves, but there are differences. The things you look at are size (large, medium, small), breadth (thin, equal, broad), lobed or not (young, lower leaves are often lobed while mature leaves are not or have fewer lobes), margins (edges) smooth or serrated, color (above and beneath), stems (long, short, thick, thin), ribs and veins (number and pattern of dominate ribs, veins), surface texture (glabrous [smooth], pubescent [soft down or fuzz], hairy) terminus shape (rounded, angular, tapered, pointed).

There are other distinguishing features (seed shape, color and number; diaphram; internodal length; flowers; propagatory characteristics), but they require a bit more grounding in botany to be useful.

You might want to look at my description of Vitis riparia (frost grape) at

just to see how descriptions offer distinct clues.

In late fall, early winter, the leaves will turn yellow, red and brown. Shortly thereafter, the vines will lose their leaves completely. About 3-5 weeks later, the vines will be completely dormant. This is the time to prune old wood from vines (you NEVER prune old wood after their buds break in the spring), to dig up smaller vines in the wild and plant them by a fence or arbor, and to take cuttings from them for propagation by rooting. Anywhere in the United States, they will be dormant during the entire month of January. In the central and northern states, you can add December and February to that period. But January-February are the two months when most pruning is done.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page

This is a very helpful introductory guide. Thanks Jack.

I live in south-central Texas (San Antonio area) and Muscadine grapes are all over the place!!! I've been making lots of jelly with the grapes but want to make some wine. If any of you have a recipe or link for making wine with household items I'd be forever grateful!! I want to start by making wine with household objects and then, as I get the hang of it, I'd like to invest in "real" equipment. I tried to make it yesterday and put it into an old 4L wine bottle and it exploded on me last night. Thanks in advance!!!

Damn, Jack! I never saw anybody so ashamed of where they live! Must be from Oklahoma :-)

I would suggest your first "household item" investment sould be a basic wine making book :-) Think of it as a new "cookbook".

Jack,

Could this be one of our SARWG members "cloaked" trying to get you to rise to the bait?

If not, sounds like "ripe" new member possibilities.

Fred

There are three wild grape species in the San Antonio area, but muscadines are not one of them. You have to drive east of Houston to find muscadines. What you are almost certainly making jelly with are mustang grapes, since the other two have not even undergone verasion yet (turned color).

Your way exploded on you. Try it the right way and it won't explode. But you need a few things first, and you'll probably have to buy some of them.

To make wine from grapes, you need a primary fermentation vessel in which to ferment the grapes for a few days, a nylon straining bag in which to squeeze the juice from the grapes, a secondary fermentation vessel in which to complete the fermentation, a rubber bung and airlock with which to seal the secondary vessel while allowing CO2 produced by the fermentation to escape (so it doesn't blow up), a

6-foot length of 1/2-inch clear plastic tubing with which to rack the wine, and a few basic and inexpensive chemicals.

The primary can be a white plastic pail or bucket, a crock pot, or a crock. The secondary can be that 4-liter bottle. Everything else needs to be purchased but is not expensive. From downtown San Antonio, take 281 north towards the airport but get off at St. Mary's, turn left, and go about 1/2 mile to a block of businesses on the right. One of them is San Antonio Homebrew Supplies (SAHS). The nylon straining bag will cost $3-4. The bung will cost about $1 and the airlock the same. The hose is very cheap.

Go to

for mustang wine recipes. They will also detail the ingredients you'll need (pectic enzyme, Campden tablets, yeast nutrient, wine yeast). You can get all of them at SAHS for a few bucks. The recipes call for Champagne or Montrachet wine yeast, but ask Todd or his wife (at SAHS) for a packet of 71B-1122 yeast (less than $1). It is a better yeast for mustang grapes.

Take this advice and you won't have any more jugs exploding on you.

Ask if you need help.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page

Thanks so much, Jack!! I'll check out SAHS next week!!

Toni