Sur Lies?

Not a yeasty flavor per se. More like a fuller mouthfeel and a toasty flavor or a bready flavor.

The French describe the effect as the lees "feeding the wine". That's not very technical, I know, but it's possibly more useful to describe it in terms of its effect than to delve into geek-speak.

The overall effect is to improve the mouth feel of the wine, softening and broadening the palate and making the wine taste richer and fuller. It also improves the nose, lending a bit of bread dough aroma that is very pleasant - particularly in full ML white wines.

OTOH, if you're making a flowery, fruity style wine you might find that sur lie isn't appropriate for that. It's a stylistic choice, and that's one of the things that makes winemaking interesting. There are so many combinations...

Tom S

Is it Sur Lies or Sur Lees? I've seen both.

Tom S wrote:

sur lies it is french for "on the lees"

Tom S wrote "The overall effect is to improve the mouth feel of the wine, softening and broadening the palate and making the wine taste richer and fuller. It also improves the nose, lending a bit of bread dough aroma that is very pleasant - particularly in full ML white wines."

Tom, I know you barrel ferment Chardonnay. Do you leave the wine on the gross lees in the barrels until you rack and fill or age in another container or do you rack off the gross lees before barrel aging? Thanks.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Hi, Bill -

The wine stays on all its lees without racking until it's time to get it ready for bottling. Typically that's about ten months. I stir the lees about once a month.

Tom S

If I go to the store will a Chardonnay say if it's been done with sur lies?

I'm interested to see what this tastes like. Next week I'm going to start a Brehm Chardonnay.

Tom S wrote:

Some do and some do not tell you if they were sur lie aged.

In addition some go through MLF and some do not, which they may or may not tell you about further complicating the flavor.

Also, some are oak aged and some are not, which again they may or may not tell you about.

There is quite a bit of variation in the world of chardonnay.

If you really want to know each will affect the wine, you could get a chardonnay kit, allow one gallon to go through MLF, sur lie and oak; another MLF and sur lie aging, another only sur lie, another only MLF, and another only oak. The last gallon you could leave untouched.

Of course there are variations that we did not cover (sur lie/oak and malolactic/oak), but unfortunately, kits do not come in 8 gallons.

Sometimes it'll say on the label; sometimes on the winery's website.

Many years ago when I first started doing sur lie on my Chardonnay it was rather uncommon and considered risky. Most Chardonnay was cold tank fermented and racked from the lees into barrels for aging. There's still a lot of that nowadays, but it's mostly the big bulk producers. The boutique producers very often do sur lie aging.

Your Brehm Chardonnay should be a good candidate for sur lie - even if you're doing it in a carboy rather than a barrel. The most important things are: (1) Get the juice well settled - as clear as possible - before fermentation. BTW, prior to fermentation is the time to dump in wood chips if you're oaking your wine. You can leave them in through the sur lie aging process. (2) Use yeast nutrient and vitamin additions, spaced over the course of the fermentation. Chardonnay is notoriously nutrient deficient and that tends to promote H2S problems, as well as stuck fermentations. (3) Keep a vigilant nose out for signs of H2S formation. (4) When the fermentation has just about pooped out, stir the bottom every few days to prevent a reductive condition in the lees during ML. Of those 4 items, the first and second seem to be the most important.

Certain yeast strains are known to tend to produce H2S, and it's best to avoid them. Montrachet is a known offender (Although I haven't had H2S problems with it, I find it far too vigorous for white wine fermentations). CY3079 is clean, as is VL2 and Epernay II (both low foamers), although I wouldn't recommend the latter for juice much over 23° Brix because of its tendency to stick off-dry.

Good luck!

Tom S

Good idea with one caveat - kits are not a good source for this experiment because the manufacturers tweak their acid balance to contain more malic acid than the juice would normally have. MLF on kits would then result in a really flabby wine. Get fresh juice instead.

Pp