Viticulture question

I would look to see what nutrients wine grapes need first (I cannot remember rihgt off hand). Get a copy of "Gowing Wine grapes" I am pretty sure they have that discussion here.

Adding any of the nutrients that are deficient will help. One thing though. Wine grapes do produce a bit high quality fruit when stressed a LITTLE bit. It is a survival adapataion, if the vine is in a poorer soil it will put a lot of effort into the fruit. While that does not mean you can totally ignore nutrients, the soil does not need to be ultra fertile either, soils that are not suitable for other crops can be great for grapes. Traditionally rocky soils have made good grape growing soils. One thing that is essential is having great drainage. Grapes HATE wet feet.

One thing you can do is contact the nearest university extension service washington state have a vinticulture program i am sure....ask them. It is free info, all part of the land grant university laws.

This link will help. Lon Rombough is the man for your questions. His book is an absolute must.

CB:

I'd like to hear what the soil analysis said.

The book you were referred to by Lon Rombaough might be a good reference for you. He is an Oregonian, westside, has specific recommendation for organic (read slow acting) amendments.

Steve noobie Oregon

Sure here's what it says: pH - moderately acid - 5.2-6.0 Phosphorus (P) - high - 40-100 ppm potassium (K) - low - 4% zinc low - 0.6 ppm manganese - good - >1.5 ppm Iron - good - not specified ?

They recommended pH in the soil between 5 and 6 so that is just right. Calcium and magnesium are low so broadcast 750 lbs/acre of gypsum and

250 lbs/acre of epsom salts.

"Macro nutrients (N, P, K) need to be increased to insure good growth" so they said

60 lbs actual nitrogen, 60 lbs P2O5 and 250 lbs K2O (lower case numbers here, can't work that out in this format) Conflicting sources recommended differing levels of nutrients so the lab person made educated guesses as to the quantities. To attain this mix she recommended 436 lbs/acre of 10-10-10 plus 218 lbs of 0-0-60 per acre. Apply 1/2 nitrogen prior to bud break and the other half post bloom. I figure I have another month before the buds start to pop.

They also said I may want to incorprate some boron and zinc. Once again this is probably due to conflicitng recommendations. My little plants need to get bigger. Like I said, all I want is vine growth and I'll worry about grapes next year or the following year after that.

Thanks you guys, for taking the time to look at my problem. I will get that book to add to my collection. CB

from a > local winery.

Where and how close to the Sound are you? And what kind of grapes are the cuttings for? I ask because your weather may also be a major factor for growing, especially if you have grapes that are expecting a lot of heat. A lot of the wineries based near Seattle are actually tasting rooms for wineries that grow a majority of their grapes east of the Cascades, where the weather is very different!

CD:

I only have 3 references I use right now in addition to this ng. I should also count the viticulture FAQ, which you can find at:

Which would be 4 all together.

Jeff Cox, Vines to Wines Lon Rombough, The Grape Grower Winkler, General Viticulture

I planted grapes last year, and am planting this year and next, so my experience is strictly local advice, ancedotal and from reading. I'm on the westside in Oregon.

Cox suggests a pH below 6.0 is to acidic for vinifera and recommends ground limestone (Dolomite?) to bring it to ~7.0. In fact he says vinifera "likes a slightly alkaline soil". Lombough says, "generally grapes do best with a pH between 6.5 and 7.2". So you might consider doing some work getting your pH up. Cox says use Gypsum for correcting alkaline soils, so that might not be a good source of Ca for you.

On neighbor uses lots of K during the season, says grapes are K hogs and mixes 0-0-80 in the irrigation water on the sandy soils. Lombough suggests a cup of wood ashes per plant for K supply, and you'll get some Mg from it, both your analysis indicates you need.

For N pick your poison. A dear friend of mine uses 13-13-13 every year. A cup or two around the plants after pruning. This allows ~ month or so of rain to leech the N to the root zone, ready for budbreak. The vineyard is ~30 years old.

I used wood ash, Fish Emulsion and then some All-Purpose Fertilizer (5-5-5) slower working stuff from Whitney Farms

for my plants. All where supplied mycorrhizal fungi at planting also, seemed to be doing ok. Knock on wood. These 'organic' fertilizers have lots of micro nutrients in them also.

Take Care Steve noobie Oregon

How were the cuttings prepared prior to planting? Did you just put them into the ground or get them started in pots and let the roots get going before planting? I am wondering if perhaps you would have had better results from two or three year old vines purchased from a nursery that specializes in grape vines. Just a guess. Others have given good advice also.

The Bainbridge Island Winery grows their own grapes, the cuttings I got are appropriate for this region and climate.

I am assuming they are a FA hybrid and not a vinifera right? Otherwise they should be on resistant rootstock. If not chances are you will lose them within 10-15 years anyway.

Anyway the question was more about how you handled them. Did you let some rooting estabilish before transplant or did you just plant the cuttings directly? If you planted them directly there may be some stunting, but that is not the best indication on how well the grapes will turn out....and that is in the end what you are after.

CB,

Here's my 2 cents.

Cuttings should need almost no nutrient supplementation to grow well. Did the cuttings get plenty of water over the past 2 years??? You should never stress young vines. If the cuttings were grown on well drained soil, they can't be over watered. I would guess water stress is your main culprit. The second thing that needs to be done is correct pruning. The cuttings after the first year should be pruned back to 2-3 buds, maybe even 1-2 buds.That way the growth you get is strong for the small amount of buds and not distributed over many buds. Growing vines from cuttings without callousing them should work but it will take an extra year. I would suggest pruning back the vines to 1-2 buds this year and water the hell out of them. Is your soil well drained????? You can add all the nutrients you want but if the soil is to dry , the vines will not use them. They will be stunted. Another thing is to mulch. That will keep the soil moist. I mulch now and have found that the mulch has almost eliminated adding fertilizer to my plants. The results of mulching were substantial. Water is the key and never stress young vines.

Bob

Forgot one more thing. Keep weed away from the young vines and they shouldn't be streesed by disease or pests. Were the leaves "clean" the entire season?? Do you know what the different fungus look like?? Pest management is also important.

Bob

Well, that is good. There are some nice pockets of the world that phyloxera has not gotten to...hopefully it stays away for you. All it takes is someone with muddy shoes.

I can't answer your question about nutrients directly, but I would echo Bob's comment about water in our dry summers. The soil may become an issue. Glacial till is common here; it's hard as concrete and can inhibit drainage and act as a root barrier. NRCS soil maps are online at:

It looks like you know about the local grape growing resources, but in case you missed it the Puget Sound Wine Growers Association might be helpful:

Erroll

It looks like this thread has just about run it's course. Thanks a lot to all you who responded, I think I know how to proceed now. I've got a busy month ahead of me.

CB