Derbyshire Treasure Hunt

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:44:26 +0000, Paul Sherwin wrote (in article ):

If all you want is Brake Bros. frozen 'home cooked three course Sunday roast £4.99' then they will seem pretentious and expensive.

To tar all gastro pubs with the pretentious, expensive, sneer at you if you only want a drink brush is as unfair as claiming all real ale drinkers wear beards and sandals.

You seem to be buying into the myth of the egalitarian 'traditional pub' as if pubs never had a demographic (some pubs even had a demographic split in their own bar rooms) and no one was ever alienated.  What about the huge number of women who were unable to enter a pub?

There never has been a default version of a pub that somehow everyone is attracted to and everyone is welcome in no matter their background.

That's just generalisation.

I constantly surprises me the number of people on this newsgroup who would claim to want to spread the word of good beer in nice pubs and recruit more people to it are the same people who as soon as someone takes a beer related venture out of the narrow demographic they approve of they take against it.

Right, so how do we define the local restaurant here, which advertises itself as such, and which offers 3 real ales in both upstairs and downstairs rooms?

It's been nominated (not yet chosen) for the 2008 Good Beer Guide, but it definitely isn't a a pub, gastro- or otherwise.

You have to collect £200 first.

are you allowed to go for beer - without eating?

Yes I think it was the Red Lion, but it was several years ago now. The Red Lion is now a main entry in the Good Pub Guide (and was before we told them what we thought about it years ago).

Have a look at their review in the 2007 edition:

Not if it advertises itself as a restaurant, I would have thought. Nice to have a restaurant that understands about good beer, and worth promoting (if the beer is well kept). But it doesn't sound as though it can be described as a pub, so why should it be included in the GBG?

You don't have to be a pub to get into the Good Beer Guide. Clubs are eligible, hotels are eligible, even the odd off-licence has got in.

Since joining my local branch of CAMRA and visiting all the area's pubs on a regular basis it's become obvious that every pub has to do what's necessary to stay in business.They can't all compete for the same trade and they don't.We have a range from wet village pubs through pubs which serve food and on to gastro pubs (although drinkers are always made welcome) An example;some years ago one pub in the Vale changed hands and the new owners arrived with a top quality chef,offering excellent upmarket food.But after a year it was obvious that the chef was spending 90% of his time making sandwiches so as soon as he found another job the pub reverted to good old fashioned cheap and cheerful grub.And thrived.Just to emphasise that every pub in these difficult times has to provide what their potential customers really want. Another example is the Martins Arms in Colston Bassett which is a very expensive value added establishment.They do have 7 real ales on tap too and it's actually a pleasant pub to visit if you don't mind paying a bit more for the beer.But it's in a tiny but prosperous village whose inhabitants are happy to pay these prices.There's no way a cheap and cheerful pub could thrive in a village like that. As a branch we support pubs which serve good well kept real ale and we realise that commercial decisions we may not like have to be made if they are to stay in business.

AND the odd Steam Train ;o)

Yes, of course, and we all need to recognise that in the current climate many out-of-town pubs have to concentrate on the food trade.

But in my view any pub that discourages the casual drinker, and provides nowhere for him/her to sit without feeling overwhelmed by food, doesn't qualify as a pub.

Many pubs successfully combine a busy food trade with a strong appeal to drinkers. One that I know well is the Davenport Arms at Woodford, near Stockport.

Yes, it has a bar downstairs, but in no way can it be described as a pub.

Indeed. But you wouldn't go to a restaurant just to drink beer. That's the point I was trying to make.

Possibly, but the question you asked was: >>>> why should it be included in the GBG?

Which rather gave the impression that you were perhaps confusing the Good Beer Guide with the Good Pub Guide. Two very different publications, each good in their own way.

No. I'm well aware of the difference between the GBG and the GPG. However I don't think that restaurants should be included in the GBG (or for that matter the GPG).

I have no particular problem with restaurants being in the gbg provided that they sell good beer and that the descirption of the establishmenys points out that it is a restaurant.

As for the steam train I couldn't possibly comment, though yesterdays Goose Eye was rather good!

You are very welcome to go for a drink without eating, and I sometimes do.

Indeed, on Tuesday evenings the kitchen is closed but the bar is open.

Beers are Taylor's Landlord, one mild (lately Theakston Mild) and an Ossett beer, all kept in great condition. Owners are ex-tenants of a GBG pub.

Just to put this particular place into perspective!

Paul