Real Ale Magazines

Good job I'm in High Peak and North East Cheshire then. BTW What's their newsletter called? :-(

Brian

Which must have been one of the least lamented closures I've ever seen. A picturesque brewery in the town centre but their beer made ditchwater seem attractive by comparison - and the same is true of the Hartleys brand under Robinsons.

JP

Thank you very much to everyone who's replied so far. There are several new ones there (to me) to investigate.

Not tried Hartley's recently, but I was in the Arden Arms a week or two ago (GBG listed Stockport pub, IIRC current Stocky POTY) & while the firkin of Old Tom was still fizzing thru its soft spile in the warmth of the bar & therefore not on sale (grrrr, bad timing!) we tried some of the ordinary Robbies beer instead.

With the exception of the feline brew, I've always thought of Robbies as just another dull regional brewery making boring brown beer, but in this pub, presumably with great cellaring & good turnover, the mild was pretty good but the ordinary strength bitter really was a thing of beauty - fresh, hoppy, balanced & just delicious.

We were all pleasantly surprised & a little reluctant to leave - a quick half turned into a very enjoyable couple of pints, before we pounced on Oddbins in search of their small range of passable to good beer (Little Creatures, Lindeman's Cassis, Hopback SL, etc.) on the way to a family house party. cheers, MikeMcG.

Not true - it was pure nectar! From 1984, when I first moved into Cumbria, until brewery closure, It was absolutely my all-time favourite beer, despite much exposure to others.

Never surpassed or even matched .... until the Bristol AGM .... when I first came across Exmoor Gold - as it was then.

Hartley's XB is much lamented, even now.

ah - I might agree with you there.

Perhaps there is is less bad beer brewed than we might think?

I think a number of "common" beers that are generally regarded as dull and insipid are actually poor because of the way they are looked after, either in the cellar or as a result of a tortuous distribution system.

Perhaps we all need to be more open minded and instead of always going for the sexy guest beer, trying the "regular" which after all may be as Mike found it - "fresh, hoppy, balanced & just delicious".

Recently I've tried the following beers which as so often bland and insipid and found them to be magnificent in trusted pubs:

Black Sheep Bitter Wadworth 6X Theakston BB (probably from Masham) Banks's Bitter

However I've still not found any really good examples of the following in the last year:

Tetley Bitter Wells Bombardier Morland Old Speckled Hen Ruddles Bitter Greene King IPA (I know, I know)

I think that rather harks back to the comments that many made immediately after the Great British Beer Festival last year - i.e. that the problem with many of the common beers is not that they are definitely brewed as "tat" but rather that in many (very many?) cases the cellar keeping is dire. Often the the beer is hammered to hell and gone by being squirted through ridiculously small holes in those objects designed to fluff the head at the expense of taste. Other times the cellarman seems to work on the basis of cooling the beer after it leaves the cellar (flash cooling) rather than proper temperature control on the cellar itself.

Bad beer is not that easy to produce from a decent temperature clean cellar, excellent beer takes effort even from a good cellar, too often the effort falls between the two and the result is lack lustre.

Lest anyone think that this is one sided do note: Just the other day Mr Pickthall (was it Steve or Jeff) made disparaging comments about London Drinker and the lack of condition on the beer so CAMRA should look carefully at various aspects too. His outspoken grouch is probably many other peoples quiet mumble and non-appearance next year.

I had never tasted this until a recent visit to Cambridge. We stayed at a village pub with it on and I tried it with a completely open mind - and wondered: "why on earth ....?" Bland, boring, not too nice, really.

Then the next day we went into a GBG pub in Cambridge (Boatman/something/ of the Thames?).

We weren't going to bother with the IPA there - just drank the guest beer - until the landlord, who obviously took a pride in his beer and cellarmanship, started talking to us. We were impressed by his knowledge and commitment and tried his IPA. It was wonderful and we could see why, if the judges had beer conditioned likethat, they voted for it.

Robinsons beers do seem to vary more depending on standards of cellarmanship than some others. At their best they are in my view certainly the best of Greater Manchester's family brewers. The local brewery whose regular beers I do find a touch dull are Hydes (and my local is a GBG-listed Hydes pub).

The "average" standard of Robinsons has improved in the past few years as a result of the brewery instituting an annual bar & cellar competition.

I think there is a widespread tendency within CAMRA when judging beer to set too much store by the intrinsic character of a beer rather than how it is kept in that particular pub.

Many micro-brewery beers may seem better than regional brewers' products as they are only encountered in pubs that care about their beer, and don't have to cope with varying standards of cellarmanship across sizeable tied estates.

I also grouched about the bloody awful hot, humid atmosphere in the place. Also the awful lighting in the main room was headache-inducing.

I think the often touted notions that bad beer festivals, such as the one in question, are showcases for real-ale and recruiting ground for the pro-real-ale cause are hogwash. They only ever preach to the converted - and the converted are often left asking "is this the best you can do?".

JP

I also grouched about the bloody awful hot, humid atmosphere in the place. Also the awful lighting in the main room was headache-inducing.

I think the often touted notions that beer festivals, such as the one in question, are showcases for real-ale and recruiting ground for the pro-real-ale cause are hogwash. They only ever preach to the converted

- and the converted are often left asking "is this the best you can do?", meanwhile the organisers give themselves a pat on the back.

JP

Dim dark interspersed with very bright by any chance?

Food for thought wouldn't you say?

Are you referring to tasting as in tasting panels, judging as in beer of the year competition or the ongoing of judging beer quality as per the NBSS? Also by "CAMRA" I'm not sure if you are mean it's members per se, a specific part of the organisation or someone/thing else.

Can you explain this a little more please?

I just mean the general opinion of "the CAMRA member in the pub". "Oakham JHB is a great beer." "Greene King IPA is crap." It's not quite as simple as that.

From what several people have said, Greene King IPA is capable of scaling the heights, even though it very rarely does. The same applies to a lot of other beers often dismissed as "dull" and "mainstream".

Quite right. I don't know about you but I have yet to meet the average CAMRA member in the pub that people so frequently quote.

To be honest I've yet to meet the average CAMRA member - you can't even find a decent collection of overweight, bearded, sandal-wearers at a beer festival most days.

As I've said many times before - cellarmanship (or lack thereof)

Question - other people must have noted this but why are so many good cellarmen/licensees awkward sods? ("Interesting characters" is the popular phrase)

Oh right, because although that attitude might be common amongst some members (I don't like tarring everyone with the same brush), I would not that it reflects in any way, the overall direction of the campaign in general.

Absolutely, but the brewers of such nationally mainstream beers only have themselves to blame for failing to consider what happens to their baby when it leaves the brewery gates?

In terms of the actual character of a beer, I'm not so sure that it is possible to be impartial when considering the various flavours out there. That pint of Carrot and Coriander ale might be in superb condition but that doesn't mean it's a great beer.

It shouldn't be called the Good Beer Guide but the Good Licensee* Guide

• or cellarman?

In many cases they are actually guilty of specifying treatment for the beer that destroys its character. GK IPA probably being a good case in point.

The better pints people get are not served the way the brewery say they should be and the excellent ones tend to be ones without the "sparkler" which would otherwise trash the hop character.