SIBA Cask ale report

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:31:46 +0000, BH wrote (in message ):

"Penetration within pubcos is constrained by the beer tie".

The tie is THE single biggest problem the real-ale business faces.

CAMRA must decide whether or not it supports the tie.

I couldn't find it on their website but I seem to remember the manifesto says something like "CAMRA supports the tie system in that it guarantees outlets for smaller brewers".

"CAMRA supports the tied house system insofar as it encourages smaller brewers, and consumer choice."

With the decline of small family brewers probably less true that it was in the past and would agree that it is becoming an anachronism.

Bonkers logic.

Much better to make ties illegal - as in the USA and EU - and give brewers access to 100% of pubs and bars.

"encourages smaller brewers"- How exactly?

I assume you are referring to the CAMRA quote and not my comment as I was agreeing with you!

At one time it certainly did help them (think of family breweries like Donnington) but I don't that model holds particularly well up in the 21C.

There are still a few long established local breweries with pub estates - we have Hardy & Hanson's in Nottingham for example,which are trading the way they always have. They are brewers and went to the trouble and expense to buy outlets for their products. I can't find any problem with this at all and can see no justification for outside influence to alter the way they operate. They also treat their managers/tenents a lot better than the big pubcos. On the other hand there are the big chains who do things differently , they are not operating the pubs as outlets for their own products and all brewers should have access to this market.However this isn't as good as it sounds.I was talking to a micro brewer about the access deal they have with Enterprise. The problem is that most local Enterprise inns don't sell cask ale!

Missing the point I think. Said local brewer needs to buy a hand pump, loan or rent the hand pump to a pub and teach the staff how to keep and serve the product.

Loan of pump ceases when sale of beer ceases.

PS. Local branch can also and explain how easy things can be if the Enterprise manager bod wants to get off arse and do it.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:29:38 +0000, Steven Pampling wrote (in message ):

They don't sell real ale not because they're lazy, it hasn't occurred to them or they're ignorant of how to serve it. They don't sell it because there are far more profitable less effort products to sell, it's understandable.

And I'm sure they'd really appreciate the local branch coming round putting their two penn'orth in!

I'm pleased that Hardy & Hanson's have done that, but it's very unfair that a brewer has to buy their own retail outlets.

Beer is one of the very few products that is sold along such lines. Brewers should simply be able to do what every other manufaturer does - enter into contracts with retailers and distributors without having to raise the large sums of capital necessary to buy their own "shops".

I agree with the OP - the tie is a grotesque distortion of trade, and I'd like CAMRA and SIBA to really make this a priority this year and get it taken up with the Competition Commissioners at the EU.

The local brewers like H&H have owned most of their pubs for decades,long before the micro revolution.It all happened when building and land were cheap. By the way they bought the Trip to Jerusalem pub simply to prevent it from being ruined by a pubco.I heard that a lot of Mr Hanson's private money went in to it , the pub is too small to make a realistic commercial return on the outlay.

"...but it was her total assurance on the trampoline that really impressed us."

Was she on one of the wee trampolines (like a indoor exercise type) or a big trampoline (like