Brettanomyces and Guinness

You know who would know? The folks that brew it. All you have to do is find somebody who lives in Ireland and have him or her knock up the brewers and ask.

There's geography and there's networks, so it's not as near as that in social space. And they seem a secretive bunch, those Guinness technologist-brewers (just ask Gossett). No brewery tours, just a Guinness-image museum.

Brendan Halpin a écrit :

Dublin Brewed Guinness Foreign Extra reportedly is a mix of an aged beer with a younger brew. It does have a slight "horse blanket" edge to it.

That's the one consistent note in all the myth. Even Wheeler and Protz say so. I must get hold of some again. But somehow I cannot see it (memories of the abandonment of bottle conditioning make me sceptical).

Brendan

You mean like, I'm not going to stay with you and you're going to have to raise the baby alone if you don't tell me the secret of Guinness and Brettanomyces?

-Steve

Whew. I was starting to worry that nobody would take the bait. Good on ya.

For reference, I found this quoted in HBD #2672:

Pretty specific, but I still have my doubts. Still, I know where I can pick up a few bottles on my way home...

Brendan

... and I can certainly say that it has a background tartness that makes for excellent balance (unlike, say, beers I've brewed at this sort of ABV which verged on cloying). I can't say that I detect anything specifically equine, but it is about 12 hours past the ideal tasting time. (Note to self: save other bottle for Saturday elevenses.)

Brendan

Brendan Halpin a écrit :

Note that they mention *aging*, not specifically brettanomyces. Even older bottles of Lion Stout (from Sri Lanka) do tend to develop such an edge over time.

The Submarine Captain wrote in news:441499ab$1 snipped-for-privacy@news.bluewin.ch:

I suppose the use of Brett is possible, but I doubt they go to the trouble, 'specially nowadays.

I don't get horse out of Guinness. Everything I taste can be attributed to malt bill, FG, and serving process.

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA

That's the rub. Back not too many years ago, before Guinness was pasteurized, if there was Brett in the beer it wouldn't gotten progressively more intense, no?

snipped-for-privacy@see.headers (Joel) wrote in news:dvcll1$768$ snipped-for-privacy@badger.ncsa.uiuc.edu:

How many years was that?

Huh?

I suppose Guinness used (or more likely, had to live with) Brett (hence that whole blending thing in the bad old days)...but as Superkid would say: "I don't get you." Have you (all) noticed an intensifaction of horse in Guinness?

Are you implying that they use it and it gets knocked off at the desired level during pateurization? Are you implying that I can find super-horsey old kegs of Guinness somewhere? If the latter, PLEASE let me know where - that's worth airfare. If the former, I think you're full of horseshit. I don't "get" horse in Guinness of any label/package that is available to me.

As an aside, I have used Brett and my limited experience is that it does not go logarithmic over time. It's contribution is relatively short but stable in the long term.

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA

No, my point is simple. Brett doesn't need oxygen, and can eat just about anything. If the olf Guinness had Brett, and wasn't pasteurized, the Brett would continue to work, and old Giunes [sic] would've been a vary variable beast, getting more horsey as it aged. Since I (and from lack of reportage, nobody else either) never encountered that, there was ipso facto no Brett in Guinness.

That's not been my experience. But I will have to tap the keg of plambic that's been sitting in my basement for about six years to see what has happened to it.

Joel,

I took your earlier advice (after a fashion) and much to my surprise got a result:

My surprise at getting real facts out of a consumer-oriented big-beer-brand website is only exceeded by the pleasure of having my curiosity satisfied.

Brendan

Good job! And I will admit to being wrong... and to not having had Guinness more than once or twice prior to sometime in the middle 80's.

To get back to your earlier points, other sources imply that the soured beer blended in has always been pasteurised, so increasing horsiness wouldn't have been a problem. And also, just in case of misunderstanding, the answer applies to Foreign Export Stout, not the substantially weaker Extra Stout.

Brendan

Brendan Halpin a écrit :

Foreign Extra, and the Irish version of it, not the Nigerian or Mauritian versions. And it should'nt be confused either with Guinness Special Export, which is a 7,5%er for the Belgian Market.

Absolutely correct, as I can say after rooting through the recycling waiting area to check the label, Foreign Extra Stout, brewed St James's Gate, 7.5%ABV.

So what's different about the Special Export Stout??

Brendan

snipped-for-privacy@see.headers (Joel) wrote in news:dvn3ie$gnj$1 @badger.ncsa.uiuc.edu:

Huh?

contribution

Let us know. I've got multiple bottles from 02/01 and have sampled periodically. The horse blanket has diminished over time.

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA