Would varietal labelling of French wine serve any purpose?

More information is better. How would it possibly hurt to list the cepage?

Dimitri

My question was not whether it would ”hurt• but what practical beenfit it would bring to either the experienced, or the tyro, wine drinker and, indeed, whether it might not convey the impression to the latter that he/she could expect consistency of flavour simply because the cépage was the same.

Tim Hartley

Perhaps you might consider that Cabernet labeled as such from some of the cheapy places in south of france would now be Cabernet for $6.99 USA per bottle compared to Bordeauxs Chateau Margaux for $299.00 per bottle.

Reality I think is the cheapo everyday wines mostly already do the grape variety. Anyone buying a Margaux is going to know what it is and if not they are not going to buy because its says: Mostly Cab, some Merlot, blah blah blah.

The issue hurting French wines is primaritly competition from Austrialia, Chili, Argentina, NZ and the fact there is some anti french sentiment in USA towards french wine. Mostly the cheap stuff. I did my fair share of bashing but DRC and Margaux did not come down :-(.

Today there are more producers and the guy with the largest worldwide share is always the one that has the most to lose.

I would not change labels on any classified growth. Only the cheap stuff. I would suggest getting more value into the French wines at the top level.

Sorry.

"Richard Neidich" wrote in news:FgbKe.3344$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

Indeed the REd Bicyclette and the like Fat Bastard's do mention varietal's but they are competing at the bottom level. I agree, one does not need to know the varietal if one is buying one of the Biggies.

I don't think there is anything to be sorry about! I would not disagree with you about the really basic stuff if it helps the basic buyer. However French law does not prevent a varietal name on Vin de Pays or VDQS so there is no need for change. At the AoC level terroir becomes improtnt and I stand by my original points.

Tim Hartley

If it won't hurt then why not list it? Trying to save ink?

Dimitri

So the main argument against listing it is, it seems, snob appeal?

Dimitri

snipped-for-privacy@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (D. Gerasimatos) wrote in news:ddbhnf$1n4f$1 @agate.berkeley.edu:

well it would seem a reverse is the reason "to" list it. It isn't necessary for the more expensive labels, but it couldn't hurt the cheap ones.

Not at all. Is a Napa Cabernet from Rutherford the same as a California Cabernet from California.

Lets face some reality that geography matters and if you don't know Margaux characteristics your not likely to spend the money anyway. Why change a label of tradition simply due to ignorance?

sorry

I do not disagree that terrior is important and that is why all Cabernet is not created equal. I think the designate Haut Medoc, St. Emillion, Pomeral is an important part that needs better marketing.

In fact, All Cab is not created equal and explain what terrior is to the future generations of wine lovers.

I think its a marketing issue not a labeling issue. If it said Cabernet on the label of a Chat. Margaux but the bottle sold for $299 the average consumer is not going to understand the difference without understanding Terroir and its value.

Why isn't it necessary for the expensive labels? I think it's interesting to know, say, how much petit verdot made it into the cepage (or that none did in a particular year). I know that the French think we Americans have an unnatural preoccupation with varietals and that we should "Just Drink It" but c'est la vie. Is it a trade secret to know or something?

Dimitri

This sure sounds like snobbery to me.

Dimitri

You make an interesting point but the key point on a French wine is the AOC designation not the variety.

The new world wines from Napa are great but even Napa does not want to be confused with Central coast Cabernets, or generic cab from AOC California.

They want to be a Cal. Cab from Napa, Rutherford, Calistoga, Stags Leap District.---why...because terroir matters even here.

If California wine production were 300 years old perhaps you would know if its red from Stags leap its Cabernet.

I think 100+ years of history means that a Bordeaux left bank/right bank has different terroir and everyone that enjoys wine understands that if its bordeaux the grapes are the same but the mix might be different % year to year.

How about instead of changing the front label there is a label on rear that simply says: 1995 Lafite Rothchild contains 70% Cabernet, 25% Merlot, 3% Cab Franc, 2% Petit Verdot. Small label all white no graphics ingredient type on rear that could be applied.

No change to front of label.

Are all Cabernets the same? Are you selling Cabernet or Napa wine,

Cabernet then should be the same from anywhere?

If you beleive terroir is the issue then AOC Margaux Controllee matters more than 80% Cab or 80% Merlot.

Get it...I guess I am a snob!!!

(snip)

Petit Verdot. Small label all white no graphics ingredient

I'm definitely in favour of defining varietal contents on bottles and the above suggestion sounds very practical and in fact is being practised by many vintners today.

I agree that terroire is very important, as are the skills of the viticulturalist and the winemaker. I understand that these factors make one Chardonnay taste very different from another and experience and my particular taste (or lack thereof) will lead me prefer one over the other. The hints provided by the area of origin of the wine, the winemaker, and the declared bottle contents will provide me with hints as to what I can expect from the product.

The buyers of plonk really don't give a s*it what you put on the label, they only want price... and perhaps alcohol content. Those who are interested in the product will appreciate hints as to what they can expect in the glass.

Hi

also remember that Bordeaux blends vary year to year, so having the names of the varietals would lead to people asking for the percentage etc..

I still think that it would not hurt to have a back label customized to the particular market. For the US some kind of statement of the names of the varietals might be included for information purposes, and it would not hurt the AOC system. I think this is different from relabelling wines as varietals.

I understand the desire to simplify the wine world, but there must be a happy medium between the meaningless classification into 7-8 varietals (as if varietal accounted for even 30% of the distinctive characteristics of a wine... well OK, if you overoak it completely maybe...) or the absurdity of having thousands of appellations most of which are not worth even mentioning.

More fundamentally, I think that the time has come for a reform of wine labelling at the EU level, with consistent labelling and rules for France Italy Spain etc. but also Germany etc.. This is where our local governments have missed a chance, in increasing readability of labels acroos the EU (this would inevitably influence other countries...).

Don't you think that all European wine could be classified under something like 400 appellations? You would have:

- large catch-all national or multiregional appellations and all the regional appellations (varietal mentioned, no vintage)

- something like 100 higher quality appellations

- and for the latter an added qualifier would be reserved for the best terroirs granted to maybe 500 sub-areas of particularly high quality (communes, einzellage, vineyards, crus, etc.).

Some of the problems of today's system:

- new appellations are coming out all the time, some in which no wine has yet been produced. It's just clutter.

- the lower Vin de Pays and equivalents elsewhere in Europe are mostly varietal wines yet still geographically defined in areas sometimes as small as some of the AOCs, in fact often competing with nearby AOCs.

There is work to be done.

Mike

Richard Neidich wrote:

The direction this discussion runs is absolutely moot.

The problem does not arise with high-end appellations.

The real problem: Why should a plain AOC "Bordeaux" wine not be able to mention "Merlot" or "Sauvignon Blanc"? Why should a "Côtes du Rhône" not be able to say "Viognier" or "Syrah"? Why should a "Côtes de Provences" not be able to mention "Grenache"?

I don't see any sense in not permitting to mention the grape variety onj these type of wines.

M.

Absolutely. I was just in the process of formulating a post with an identical point of view.

I have noticed that some low-end Bx and Burg *is* varietally labelled in the UK. Someone told me this was illegal, but tolerated for bottles exported from France. But I have a feeling that it might be toitally legal now. Anyone with more up to date information?

Until is is accepted practice, Bx producers have a particular problem in that they have no Vin de Pays alternatives to A0C. Or has that changed now as well?

Afaik, all this is intensely discussed within INAO, but without definitve outcome yet.

M.