Re: Of Microsoft and "Great" Britain

More detail here:

As for the bringing of tea cultivation to India by the British in the

True, but the fact that the Assam strain grew wild doesn't change the fact that tea *cultivation*, not to mention tea drinking, originated in China. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some anthropologist has found some use of tea in the ethnobotany of Assam hill tribes, but you aren't going to find a mention of tea in e.g. the Vedas.

It sure does in Darjeeling.

/Lew

Since Charles Bruce acquired small plants from local chiefs, and since the locals did the bulk of the work of producing the first 10 chests of tea made from the native camilla assamica, it's speculated that the Assam hill tribes had probably been brewing tea from wild bushes for generations prior.

There's some mention of finding and harvesting patches of tea bushes in the forest, but it's not really been said whether they were wild or cultivated. It's certainly true that there was no commercial cultivation, and very likely that there was no real cultivation at all.

Also in Nilgiri, Kumaon, Garhwal, Kangra, and Wynaad. It's said that patches of camilla sinensis survived in these districts but I have no idea how widely cultivated they were or still are. In any case, I hear that more tea is produced in Assam than the rest of India combined.

• > Lewis Per+ >
• > + > [...theft...]
• > + >
• > + > Tea for example, was stolen from India during the height of British
• > + > colonialism. And let's not forget the Opium Wars, where the British Empire
• > + > simply took over the opium trade in the far East. The first drug lords.
• >
• > + Not exactly. Tea was stolen by the British, who brought it to India
• > + so they could grow it there and wouldn't have to pay the Chinese
• > + monopoly prices for it. (Not that the Brits necessarily objected to
• > + *charging* monopoly prices.)
• >
• > do you have a reference for this?

• As for the bringing of tea cultivation to India by the British in the

• 19 century, Eric Jorgensen has already posted a source. There are
• many others, including James Norwood Pratt's _New Tea Lover's
• Treasury_.

yes, but some of the accounts are inaccurate. it was the local nobleman, maniram dewan, who led bruce to tea, which is generally glossed over in british accounts, because the dewan was an enterprising man, and had set up his own tea estates. the british placed sedition charges on him and had him hanged.

• > as far as i am aware, the chinese variety is different from the
• > assam variety which is native to that place.
• >
  formatting link

• True, but the fact that the Assam strain grew wild doesn't change the

• fact that tea *cultivation*, not to mention tea drinking, originated
• in China. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some anthropologist
• has found some use of tea in the ethnobotany of Assam hill tribes, but
• you aren't going to find a mention of tea in e.g. the Vedas.

no one is claiming that they are mentioned in vedas.

• > the chinese variety does not survive in india.

• It sure does in Darjeeling.

yes, but in assam, it does not. the assams are grown very close to sea level. the chinese plant does not do well in this situation. you need to make that distinction.

-- saurav

Eric Jorgensen ( snipped-for-privacy@xmission.com) wrote on Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:39:38 -0700:

• Also in Nilgiri, Kumaon, Garhwal, Kangra, and Wynaad. It's said that
• patches of camilla sinensis survived in these districts but I have no idea
• how widely cultivated they were or still are. In any case, I hear that more
• tea is produced in Assam than the rest of India combined.

this is very likely true. and more tea in the world is produced from the assam variety (which includes ceylons and kenyan tea).

-- saurav

No matter how villanous the Brits were toward Dewan and the rest of the population of India, the reason tea was being looked into in the Subcontinent in the 19th century was Britain's desire to stop paying the Chinese for it.

Please forgive my whimsy, or sarcasm, or whatever it was. I'll be more explicit now: as far as I know, you won't find tea mentioned in Indian literature before the 19th century, because tea was simply unknown to mainline Indian culture.

Granted.

/Lew

Lewis Perin ( snipped-for-privacy@panix.com) wrote on 21 Mar 2005 18:14:54 -0500:

• > + fact that tea *cultivation*, not to mention tea drinking, originated
• > + in China. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some anthropologist
• > + has found some use of tea in the ethnobotany of Assam hill tribes, but
• > + you aren't going to find a mention of tea in e.g. the Vedas.
• >
• > no one is claiming that they are mentioned in vedas.

• Please forgive my whimsy, or sarcasm, or whatever it was. I'll be

• more explicit now: as far as I know, you won't find tea mentioned in
• Indian literature before the 19th century, because tea was simply
• unknown to mainline Indian culture.

what is there to be sarcastic about? it is accepted that tea was unknown in mainland india. if you want to sugar-coat it while saying it, you are welcome. :) but there is really no need.

• > + > the chinese variety does not survive in india.
• >
• > + It sure does in Darjeeling.
• >
• > yes, but in assam, it does not. the assams are grown very close
• > to sea level. the chinese plant does not do well in this situation.
• > you need to make that distinction.

• Granted.

that is all i wanted to say.

-- saurav

You're right; I should have restrained myself. I suppose I was just feeling irritated at (what I wrongly perceived as) excessive nationalism. You know, the kind that persuades Indians to claim that tea culture was invented in their country; Han Chinese to pretend that ethnic minorities had nothing to do with the origin of tea culture; and Americans to say ritually that their country is the greatest on earth.

/Lew

• > Lewis Perin ( snipped-for-privacy@panix.com) wrote on 21 Mar 2005 18:14:54 -0500:
• >
• > + [...]
• > + Please forgive my whimsy, or sarcasm, or whatever it was. I'll be
• > + more explicit now: as far as I know, you won't find tea mentioned in
• > + Indian literature before the 19th century, because tea was simply
• > + unknown to mainline Indian culture.
• >
• > what is there to be sarcastic about? it is accepted that tea was unknown
• > in mainland india. if you want to sugar-coat it while saying it, you
• > are welcome. :) but there is really no need.

• You're right; I should have restrained myself. I suppose I was just

• feeling irritated at (what I wrongly perceived as) excessive
• nationalism. You know, the kind that persuades Indians to claim that
• tea culture was invented in their country; Han Chinese to pretend that
• ethnic minorities had nothing to do with the origin of tea culture;
• and Americans to say ritually that their country is the greatest on
• earth.

cool.

btw, during your vacation in india, did you visit a broker's office, where they do the tasting? it does not get you anything by way of taste (common tea leaves, mostly), but that is another interesting world. if you have, i must have missed it in your journal. which, btw, i rather enjoyed.

-- saurav