A Trip to France

"RyanTaylor" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

In the Loire you will be encountering mainly chenin blanc where you are (Sauvignon blanc based Sancerre is a bit up river from the major chateau. The primary AOC's are Vouvray and Montlouis many of the producers have tasting rooms, Look for signs that say "degustation" in Montloouis Moyer and Taille aux Loups have tasting rooms.

the reds of the area are primarily Cabernet Franc in the Chateau area and Pinot Noir in the area with Sauvignon blanc wines.

You will not spend 20-40 at any winery I can think of for a still table wine. Winery prices are wholesale/manufacturer prices and will seem ridiculously low to you. A 10 euro wine will be a very good one.

At dinner if in a restaurant you will be paying the 20-40 euro (no s) level. Good buys can be had in such stores as Galleries Lafayette in Paris although there are specialty shops, the largest chain of wine and spirits is Nicolas, they are everywhere.

My favorite Loire valley reds come from the more southern end near Chinon (there is winery right across from the chateau at Chinon (or where you turn fromthe main road to get to the chateau can't remember the name but they have a rather large building that is well marked)

The red wines to look for are Bourgueil and Chinon.

The only rip off tasting that I know of is the tasting at the Chateau Chenonceau, the chateau is fine but the wines aren't so hot and they charge.

Chardonnay is a Burgundy product though any wine labled bourgogne blanc will be Chard. If you haven't yet try a Chablis steely minerally with citrus notes.

Hi Ryan,

I don't know either of these. I usually spend much more time in the Touraine/Anjou than straight Touraine, that is west of Tours. This is largely because of how the roads lie, but also because many of the nice reds are off in that direction.

Joe has already given you some good advice. In Chinon head for Cravant-les-Coteaux, where you'll find the excellent Johan Spelty and Patrick Lambert. Another is Baudry, just next to Lambert but IMO more expensive not as good, though YMMV. Avoid Beausejour. Ch. Ligré is closer to Tours IIRC, very good also and great value. Joe is right the prices will appear very low compared to equivs in the US.

In Bourgueil try Nau freres, Yannick Amirault makes good wine.

You will probably want to try some whites in Vouvray and Montlouis, the former can cost but are arguably among the finest demi-sec Chenin on the planet. Montlouis is similar in style but far less expensive.

One good place to get your bearings is the Maison du Vin, now in Tours (apparently) as well as Saumur. While this is not up to the old quality when it was run by the syndicate, it's still a good place to familiarize yourself with the styles of each terroir, and of course buy if you want.

BTW expect never to pay for a tasting in the Loire. Winemakers are happy to share and promote their wines. Please behave accordingly! :)

You might want to try and pick up a Guide Hachette, I think there is an English version if you don't speak french. That will give you hundreds of addresses in the area.

Further north, a trip to Jasnieres is always a good idea. I've had very good luck with Dom de Cezin (sp?) and they have a lovely Coteaux du Loir blanc that is extremely well priced. (Note that as Dale pointed out in another thread Pineau d'Aunis is somewhat of an acquired taste. I like the P.d'A. from Cezin, but YMMV. The Jasnieres very favorably seen by everyone I've ever shared it with, though.)

To the west, past Bourgueil, is Saumur and Saumur-Champigny. Try Dom Lavigne and Ch. Hureau. Dom St. Juste has been making fabulously rich dry chenins for some years now.

Even more west, Coteaux du Layon: Roulet, Dom d'Ambinos. Shoot, can't remember the name of Mike T's friend that has impressed me.

Why not stop by Nicolas Joly for a visit, too?

Here's a warning. Loire wines have a character all their own. They are going to be pretty far from the tastes you mention in your post, usually. They're really food wines, try and see them as such: not overpowering, but accompanying. Keep an open mind, otherwise you'll not have much fun (wine-wise) in the region. This is one of the great traditional producing areas in the world, but is not entirely in touch with the Parker-palate. This has a good side too (low price at no sacrifice of quality and complexity) but many, especially from the states, don't find much to their liking.

HTH

-E

If you happen to go into Angers and its surroundings, I can recommend:

- Domaine de la Sansonniere (Mark Angeli): only available on saturdays and you need to call in advance. His wines are amongst the purest chenins in the world (for me, that's it). Probably this is high in the price spectrum. I went last year and purchased his Rosé d'un Jour 2003 at 12 euros and his Vignes Françaises 2002 at 30 euros. Mark speaks an excellent english. Ask him to take you to the vineyard, because you are probably going to be dissappointed with the, err, cellar.

- Chateau de L'Echarderie (Pascal Laffourcade): Pascal is a charming man, that is for sure. He has a beautiful range of wines nicely priced. If you want something really special, ask him for a couple of bottles of his Quarts du Chaume 1997 or 1996. Sweet wines as good as they get.

- The properties of Madame Laroche and Nicolás Joly (Clos de la Coulee de Serrant) are truly beautiful from the vineyard point of view.

If you are going to look for excellent wines, I would avoid both Galeries Laffayette or Nicolás. Look for local cavistes (independent shops). I can provide a couple of names in both Angers and Saumur if you are interested.

Good producers of wine that I have tasted:

For Muscadet (a young wine that ranges from easy quaff to real stuff with ageing potential): All in the sub 10 euros range.

- Domaine de la Pepiere

- Domaine de L'Ecu

- Pierre Luneau-Papin (producer)

For Saumur-Champigny:

- Domaine Filliatreau (I enjoy their Vielles Vignes Red every year), 12 eur.

- Thierry Germain (producer). Excellent reds "Terres Chaudes" 15 eur and "Le Marginale" 25 eur. Astonishingly good white "L'Insolite" 20 eur.

- Philippe Alliet. An excellent red from Chinon.

- Chateau de Villeneuve (their vielles vignes is very nice)

For Anjou:

- All the range from Domaine de la Sansonniere. Their basic "La Lune" is an excellent wine in the 15-20 eur range. If you go up in price, you get more character but they can be impossibly sharp and acid when young.

For Savennieres:

- Baumard Clos St. Yves (12 eur)

- Le Petit Clos de Nicolas Joly (15-20 eur)

- Clos de la Coulé de Serrant (50 eur). this is from a monopole with the same name.

- The wines of Madame Laroche are usually good value but sometimes lack a bit of character when compared with those from his neighbour Monsieur Joly.

For Sauvignon Blanc wines (Sancerre and PF):

- Domaine Vacheron

- Didier Dagueneau (Pur Sang, Silex, en Chailloux) all of them over the

- Alphonse Mellot makes excellent Sancerre. His red Sancerre is also very interesting.

I am sure I forgot a few good producers. Please take into account that the Loire is a wonderful land for whites, and a difficult one for reds. That does not mean that there are not good reds, but in many vintages the red grapes do not ripen fully and, so, the wines from the area display metallic and vegetable notes that are not for everyone.

As to places to visit, after 6 consecutive years travelling annually to Angers, I can strongly suggest Rennes and Le Mans as two beautiful places to spend one day at. Le Mans cathedral is, wow, astonishing (and I am a Spaniard so it is not easy to surprise me in the cathedral-side of travelling). We had to visit Le Mans on a Sunday and it was, as every french town, empty. I can imagine what a beautiful place it should be on a saturday morning. It is 84km from Tours.

Rennes is also marvelous but a bit far from Tours (250km).

Saumur is a nice place also, with a very interesting castle and the center of the wine production area of Saumur and Saumur-Champigny. If you are interested in purchasing some of the best french wines, the Leclerc Store in the outside of Saumur has an astonishing selection of wines, including a full vertical of Chateau Mouton Rothschild. It is not a cheap store, but it has a temperature controlled facility where you can find many of the wines I listed above, with a 20% mark up over a street caviste, I may add.

Angers is also a very nice place which I know quite well. In a 50km area you could find a lot of very nice towns such as Savennieres, Brissac (with a wonderful castle), Rochefort sur Loire, or Thouarcé, where Chateau de L'Echarderie is located.

Best from Spain,

Santiago

Santiago wrote in news:Xns96B6F1BDF3306meprivacynetonmyown@212.89.0.29:

Fantastic response Santiago, makes me want to hop a plane!

I would not recommend either of these over a cave experience, but the OP was asking about Paris where things get hectic and these two are easy to reach.

] places to spend one day at. Le Mans cathedral is, wow, astonishing (and ] I am a Spaniard so it is not easy to surprise me in the cathedral-side

Hi Santiago,

Fascinating! I'm often there (was last week) but have never visited the cathedral. Now I will plan for it, thanks.

-E

Get hold of Patricia Wells' book on where to shop for food etc in Paris. Her recommendations regarding wine shops are excellent. Graham

I would very much be > I would not recommend either of these over a cave experience, but the OP

If you know of other "shops", I'd be happy to get the addresses from you Joseph. I realize Paris is a big city, but this isn't my first trip overseas. I've "tackled" Rome, London, and others, so if you have smaller shops in mind with better wines, I'd love to know where they are. :)

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I have another question to ask of you all. From what I've read from your responses, plus research online, I should expect certain types of wines from certain regions, yes? For example:

Bordeaux is predominately red: Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot Provence will be predominately rose wine(s) The Loire Valley is predominately white: Cabernet Blanc, Chenin Blanc, and Muscadet.

The reason I'm asking is I'm a bit worried about reading the wine labels. Andrea Immer highlighted a wine from Chateau Trimoulet on her show on Fine Living. Now the Chateau is in the appellation of Saint-Emilion, should I figure the wine is of the Merlot variety?

I'm not going to get so caught up in reading the labels that I won't enjoy myself, I'm just shooting more for a Merlot than a Cab (I'm worried a Cab will be too heavy for my taste).

Once again, thanks to everyone for their suggestions,

Ryan Taylor

In Saumur: AUX SAVEURS DE LA TONNELLE ( Loire-Atlantique )

I found excellent prices in the wines of Thierry Germain (actually, a Saumur-Champigny producer). Try to find Terres Chaudes 2001 or 2002 (red wine from Cabernet Franc). Or a young wine such as his basic wines from

In Angers: LA CAVE SAINT-AUBIN ( Maine-et-Loire )

Owner and manager, Luc Barbarin, has been selling me his wines for six years now. So if you go to Angers, give him regards from Santiago, his Spanish customer ;-). His prices are quite high, but he has good wines such as the Muscadet I recommended to you (Domaine Pierre de La Grange Vielles Vignes from Pierre Luneau Papin), Domaine Filliatreau wines also. His english is a bit weird but I have managed to communicate in the past. Just 15 metres from his shop, there is an outstanding chocolatier called Benoit. Buy some pralinés and/or chocolate tablets. Wonderful staff.

I am providing a link to the annuaire of independent wine shops in the Val du Loire:

If you want to go to the definitive shop in Paris, I recommend Lavinia France at 3 - 5 Boulevard de la Madeleine Tel: 00 33 1 42 97 20 20. A megashop.

Loire is, west to east:

- Young whites for Muscadet (the kind of wine) from the grape "Melon de Bourgogne" (not related to Bourgogne in any way). It does not resemble a muscadet wine in any way. Excellent with seafood. Produced in the Nantes area. Look for 2002 and 2004. Avoid 2003 when possible.

- Sweet whites from Chenin Blanc. Appelations Coteaux de Layon, Bonnezeaux and Quarts du Chaume. Long lived. Look for 1990, 1996, 1997,

- Reds from Cabernet Franc and, sometimes, Cabernet Sauvignon. Appelations Saumur, Saumur-Champigny, Chinon, Anjou (where there also are whites from Chenin).

- Whites again from Chenin Blanc such as Vouvray and Touraine. Vouvray can be dry or moelleux (slightly sweet). Touraine is mostly dry.

- Whites from Sauvignon Blanc: Sancerre (also some reds), Pouilly Fumé.

Most probably.

- Medoc (left bank) is usually a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot (with more CS than Merlot). Saint Estephe, Pauillac, Saint Julien, Margaux, Haut Medoc and several cru borgeois fit in this description.

- Saint Emilion is mostly merlot, but sometimes some CS and Cabernet Franc can be found.

- Pomerol is also mostly merlot.

- Pessac Leognan and Graves are usually balanced Merlot-CS blends.

Do not be afraid of Bordeaux Cabernet Sauvignons. Specially for the left bank. They will not be as powerful as an average Californian CS. usually in the 12,5-13,5 %vol.

Thank god you did not ask about Bourgogne ;-)

Best,

S.

Santiago wrote in news:Xns96B97E7FADFF7meprivacynetonmyown@212.89.0.29:

I spent an inordate amount of time in Paris my first first visit trying to track down wine shops, I discovered that for me, the best place to get wine was from producers in the areas of France that I was visiting, If I really wanted to find something in Paris the large stores usually could provide the service. Remeber as someone pointed out (Emery?) a lot of wine is sold in France through the grocery store-well really almost wal mart experience of LeClerc. Auchon, Carrefours and the rest.

Primarily red, and white ignores the greatness of the whites and reds from both areas. I know I run into this when I try to find a good red from Chinon or Bougueil (Loire) only to be told flatly that Loire wines are white

Good point, what has been touted as a GREAT year is for many wines a year of flabby wines made from grapes over blessed with sugar

The reds are more C franc with blending wines added for color, depth, adn to finish it. One such grape is in Loire called cot but elsewhere is known as malbec

Tpouraine reds also Chenin based with cot added

reds of sancerre are Pinot noir primarily \

the Reds of the Loire tend to be very pleasant with a nice balance of fruit.