After returning ...

I've never had any truly mature wines, but I've had several Fourriers from '95-'02 (mostly '99s). Mostly the Gevrey Cherbaudes and the lowly Petits Vougeot; I've had maybe one bottle each of the Combe aux Moines('95 or '96) and one CSJ ('98?). I thought all lovely, and would happily buy the wines if they hadn't recently gotten such good press from Kolm, Meadows, and Gilman (as well as good word of mouth) and have shot up.

Never "big", always elegant. Fairly traditional, in the mode of Angerville and Mugnier. I've only had the wines side by side a couple times,but found the Gevrey 1ers quite distinctive from one another.

Hello Dale,

About what age were the wines you tasted at the time? I really, really would like to think that I could get to like these wines ... the incumbent Fourrier has held his position for 24 years, taking over after his Big-Bob-bashing father, who, according to quite unreliable sources, in fact, did not make very good wines at all, compared to the son, and this particularly taking into account the sometimes spectacular terroirs of these parts.

Cheers

Nils "DaleW" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > ... from a 5-day trip to Bourgogne, I have meditated on the wines of > George

I've never had any truly mature wines, but I've had several Fourriers from '95-'02 (mostly '99s). Mostly the Gevrey Cherbaudes and the lowly Petits Vougeot; I've had maybe one bottle each of the Combe aux Moines('95 or '96) and one CSJ ('98?). I thought all lovely, and would happily buy the wines if they hadn't recently gotten such good press from Kolm, Meadows, and Gilman (as well as good word of mouth) and have shot up.

Never "big", always elegant. Fairly traditional, in the mode of Angerville and Mugnier. I've only had the wines side by side a couple times,but found the Gevrey 1ers quite distinctive from one another.

All in last 5 years, I'd say ranged from 5 to 10 years from vintage. All could have used more time. I own one bottle of Fourrier, the '95 CSJ, have 2010-2015 as my target dates.

OK if I drop in ... say 2012-ish?

Cheers

Nils

sure, come on by! You and Christina would always be welcome.

I've only had a few of his wines over the past few years. I would say that during my recent visit to Burgundy virtually everyone we visited eschewed the use of 100% new oak most opting for about 1/3. One producer recently left his importer (who shall remain unnamed) because the importer kept pushing him to add more oak to his wines. I would also point out that virtually every producer that I met with used biodynamic farming to some degree yet we saw plenty of helicopters spraying vineyards during our visit. Hmmmm.

You noticed too? Did you ever get the feeling that they, sort of, said the same thing ... ? About, like, terroir, respect, tradition, and so on and so forth? And, BTW, which producers did you visit (nudge nudge)?

We, for our part, visited Francois Lamarche (no you cannot buy anything. No you cannot order anything. No you cannot be put on the waiting list), Tollot Beaut (well, everything fro the 2006 is sold, everything from 2007 is ordered and ...), Dom Lambray (as you know our production is very small and is mostly intended for the owners), Domaine Cornu in Magny-lès-Villers (good GC Corton at EU 35), Lignier in Morey-St-Denis (extremely good QPR 1er cru M StD, 20 EU!) and Olivier Leflaive who makes exactly the kind of wine you'll like if you like the kind of wine that Olivier Leflaive makes and I don't think I do.

Cheers

Nils

Your statement is meaningless without any names attached... but to a large extent your claim is true. :-)

Somebody compiled a list on the web of 425 domaines that are allegedly Biodynamic. I would guess that maybe 100 are actually certified biodynamic, and that only 20 are certified on a significant part of their production.

Without certification, any claim to biodynamics is just dabbling and not verifiable, therefore dishonest. "Using biodynamic practices" means almost nothing.

What percentage of the production of Leflaive, Comptes Lafon or Prieuré Roch is Biodynamic? 10%? 5%? 1%? This allows space for lots of marketing and lots of helicopters :-)

I got the hint and I'm working on it Nils. :-)...I had a ton of work piled up on my desk on return and a client was screaming for a report....I hate it when work gets in the way!

Yes, I did get the feeling that they were al saying the same thing...like a mantra out of the same book. Most producers have shipped their 2006's and all complained of the small harvest of 2006 almost as a justification of the price levels in relation to 2005. They all seemed a bit apologetic over the 2005 wines in that a vintage like 2005 comes along once in a century and they couldn't dare hope to make wines like 2005 again...hmmmm.

That was the irony. I don't think that there was any intentional deceit just a desire to grow the best grapes they can without a lot of chemical intervention. Many would allude to not using any herbicides, I saw a few horse pulled plows in the vineyards, and there seemed to be an avoidance of the issue of pesticides. I suppose it's possible that the helicopters were spraying salicylicides on the leaves which alledgedly increases the effects of sunlight on vine growth by refracting sunlight. I also should clarify that while they mentioned the use of biodynamic processes I didn't mean to imply that they were in fact certified as biodynamic growers as far as I know. I'll post a list today of the sites that I visited.

I don't often run across Prieure Roch, but Domaine Leflaive (NOT Olivier) and Lafon claim to be fully biodynamic. I know Leflaive is certified by Demeter, unsure re Lafon.

On May 22, 7:59�pm, "Bi!!" wrote: . �One

Oh, that's teasing. How about initials? BK? :)

or DH/NBI? :P

Mark Lipton

In fact, I cannot point the finger of scoff, seeing as how I promised to do the Bourgogne part of the FAQ c. one zillion years ago and so far, what has happened? Exactly.

However, I saw you recent posting and it was very illuminative, partiocularly as concerns CHablis which so far I have not visited (mea culpa).

Exactly. Mantra. MikeT said it first (really about Mascarello di Mascarello in Barolo, but it still fits) and it gives me a bit of ... itch in the soul or something similar.

I did taste a few 2007 from barrels (where the malolactic fermentation was over and the CO2 had evaporated) and, with all possible aubterfuges I think the 07 might be better than the 06. This of course dioes not express the views of my employer etc etc.

CHeers

Nils (Self-employed)

One of you is right......