Brettanomyces vs TCA

This does not sound reasonable to me. I would think Bret would affect the whole lot. Can you describe "Funky" some more. If you have a good amount of wine from this bottling, it might be worthwhile to send the "Funky" stuff to a lab. If it was in a barrel, then again the whole lot should be the same AND your barrel would be contaminated.

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I've read a few NG/forum articles on bottle contamination and Bret, but do not have any studies to back up that assertion.

Hunt

Yes, that is true. It can and does remain in the air the winery - BUT there are ways to control it. It is also among the "wild" yeast on the grapes in the vineyard. Having the pH and SO2 levels in the wine at the correct values is the way it is normally controlled along with good winery sanitation.

When I responded initially, I thought I was reading the winemaking newsgroup and hence my reference to barrels. I thought that perhaps you were a home winemaker like myself.

Some people like the taste of Brett (I don't) and some (including some French winemakers) say a "Little" bit of it can add a certain "complexity" but it is virtually impossible to control the amount.

I still have my reservations that you are tasting Bret. Now, bottle contamination may be possible. As a home winemaker, I wash and rinse my bottles prior to bottling. I worked for a winery after I retired and found it amazing that it is not uncommon for wineries to bottle with bottles straight from the manufacturer - no washing, rinsing or anything.

3 possible explanations: 1/ Are you sure they were from the same barrel? 2/ Were the bottles stored identically? I understand that if brett is present at all it can develop in bottle. One of the reasons for storing at low temperatures is to discourage brett growth. I suppose this theory would assume that your wine was not subject to microfiltration and/or sulphur just prior to bottling. 3/ Does brett require oxygen? If so the it could be due to cork variation. This too would assume the brett cells wer not zapped or removed prior to bottling.

It would be very improbably that the wine was bottled barrel by barrel. Normally all the barrels are pumped into stainless and then bottled.

Doubtful that low temperature alone would prevent brett growth. It would have to be VERY cold.

I don't believe most are in favor of filtration on a very fine mesh (fine enough to filter yeast cells) for red wines as this can strip out flavor also - unless their wine is unstable (unfermented sugar - or an infection in the wine).

We are talking about Brett but the fact is we have no idea what the contamination is. If the OP is really interested, he can send a sample to a lab and have it analyzed. It could be just a case of bottling in dirty bottles. I have seen bottles from the manufacturer in Mexico dusty and in no way sanitized taken directly from the boxes and put in the bottling line. I also think a lot of the TCA talk may actually be due from dirty bottles and not necessarily cork taint.

I really have no idea if all was from same barrel but it was from same case of wine. I made a leap there.

Had another bottle last night from case and it was GREAT, no signs of bret.

The winery said they made changes and in 2004 no longer will the issue exist. So they worked on it and were aware.

Its a great winery so I am no listing the name. One of my favorite Cal wineries.

Speaking of Brett, what was the year that Beringer had the Brett problem?

Not sure where I heard it, but I thought the difference between a good cellar temp and, say, 25 deg C would make all the difference. If you have any hard data on brett growth vs temp I'd be interested to see it.

I don't have any hard data on temperature and Brett. All I know is that it grows very well in temperatures common in barrel rooms of wineries. I also know that it is common on the fruit itself when brought in from the vineyard.

I know yeast strains have their ideal temperature ranges but I do not know about Brett. I can only assume that cold would not kill it as cold does not kill yeast cells. I have stored some of my wine yeast in the refrigerator or even the freezer for a year with no ill effects. I have also done the same for Malo Lactic bacteria.

I don't know of anyone who tries to culture Brett on purpose so the hard data may be lacking.

OK. For the record, I was not suggesting that cellar temps (12 deg C or so) would kill brett - just that Brett would cause little further damage at that temperature. But if Richard's wines came from the same case, it would seem unlikely that temperature differences would be the cause anyway.

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I would *assume* that Brett would "do its thing," at a comfortable temp, just like letting your bread rise, and that temps cooler, than the yeast likes, would, at least, slow it down.

Hunt

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Unfortunately slowing it down is like being a little bit pregnant. A little Brett goes a long ways.

There are many who think a little Brett can be a good thing.

This is true and there are even some wineries that try to claim that it is a desired "complexity" - especially if they want to push their wine and no one is buying it. The problem is that it is very difficult to control to the point that you get just a "little bit" Personally, I try to avoid it.

And - there are those who want to be pregnant that think being a little bit pregnant is good also.

I'd like to propose a more likely cause I haven't seen yet: poor bottling line hygiene. Paul mentioned his surprise that it's "not uncommon" for commercial wineries to rinse their bottles. In fact, rare is the commercial winery that rinses its bottles. Home winemakers need to because they're using used bottles or if they have new bottles, they rinse them because they *can*. Newly manufactured bottles are naturally sterile things and assuming proper storage (they come packed in their case boxes, the pallet covered with plastic), contamination really isn't an issue. Many wineries do "sparge" - blow out the bottle with air or inert gas - but that's mostly to remove any stray bits of cardboard the might have come from cut cardboard edges.

Wineries do vary widely in bottling line hygiene. A responsible winery goes to great pains to clean the line and keep it that way: the whole line is periodically steam cleaned, a food grade spray (often, pure ethanol) is kept on hand to re-sanitize any parts that are handled during a bottling day. I knew of a winery (which will remain nameless) near where I used to work, though, that had a local reputation for being cavalier about cleanliness and having a "dirty" line. Probably not coincidentally, they were also known for the sort of extreme bottle variation you've seen. As example, one "nipple" on an automatic filler could be contaminated, inoculating one bottle per case (for example) with a spoilage yeast.

In other words, you can have perfect winemaking and screw it all up at bottling time. I think a problem at bottling is the most likely explanation for the symptoms you've seen. The problem might originally be airborne in the winery but the real problem was a failure to clean their bottling equipment.

I was told at an English vineyard that SO2 was blown into each bottle immediately prior to bottling. How common is that practice?