CA wines downunder!

I stand ready to be of service in the future, but I fear given:

That I must stock up on a different varietal.

It is always good to hear from you - the weather will improve, I would send some of our heat if I could,

Cheers Joseph Coulter Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations

Why try to appreciate California wines?

As an ex-California-er of 30 years, California wines are totally unacceptable to me. I buy an occasional Kirkland California wine, or one recommended by a wine shop, but I say ad infinitum, they are consistently terribly disappointing.

I always am puzzled by the quantity of wines drunk or sampled from various posters from various countries. How can this be?:-))

Dee Dee

What is it about California wines that you find so off-putting?

Can't speak for Dee, but for a long time the QPR was ridiculous. CA Rhone blends at $25 that remembled Parallel 45, Oak monster Chards with no finesse or flabby cheapies. Yes there are good ones, and I am slowly allowing myself to try some, but for years I just avoided CA in favor of France Spain and Italy always easier to pick up a good bottle. Then the Australians started making wines as I like them, NZ and S. America and it becomes hard to justify to dollars to experiement.

Joseph Coulter Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations

Joseph wrote on Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:55:04 -0400:

Does no-one remember "The Judgement of Paris"? I have to admit that my wine-tasting at the moment involves mostly OZ and NZ but I tend to make comparisons with CA rather than French wines. I did find an interesting Shiraz from South Africa recently: Douglas, I think.

This matches my experience precisely, down to the Parallele 45 example. There are many wonderful wines from CA, but I do most of my wine buying in the $10-$25 range and find much better QPR elsewhere. For under $20, I'm much more happy with a good village level Chablis than with an "oak monster chard" and happier with a Gigondas than with anything I've had from Napa at that price (OK, I realize that second comparison isn't like with like, but still).

Not to mention the plethora of really interesting white grapes (Riesling, Albarino, Chenin Blanc, Melon de Bourgogne, Gruner...) that seem to have no serious representation in CA but that can be sensational.

To end on a positive note, how about favorite CA wines in the $10-$25 range?

I'll start:

Matanzas Creek Sauvignon Blanc. (Though even here, for under $20 I can get wines that are just as exciting from the Loire.)

Yeah, so maybe one's viewpoint on this depends on how much money one wants to spend.

Maybe the Chateau Montelana Napa Chardonnay is just as good or better than the Domaine Christian Moreau Chablis Grand Cru, but I'm just not buying that much wine at $50 a bottle. (A pity, no doubt, but that's the way things are.)

At the prices I am paying (mostly sub $20) I seem to have better luck outside of the US.

My theory about this by the way, is that land is simply too expensive in California and Oregon to be able to afford to make good moderately priced wine. Whereas in some of the rest of the new world (e.g. Argentina) land is cheaper, and in the old world, although land is not cheap, the estates that have been in the same family for many generations don't have to pay high mortgages. Someone who knows more than me could say whether this theory has any actual basis in fact...

Here's one that I will buy maybe 3 more bottles today at Costco. Yalumba Barossa Shiraz Viognier 2005.

Normally I wouldn't like the taste of 14.5% alcohol, and it is a bit sweeter than I usually like, but I like this one and it is good value $13.59.

:-) I notice it is imported by a Napa Valley importer.

Dee

I recently read the book. The movie based on it, STUNK!, but I have said that prevoiusly :-) Dee

Can't disagree with the QPR issue but would disagree slightly with the Oz comparison. I find their wines to be quite overdone, too extracted at times, and very little to distinguish one from the other. I hate to use the dreaded "t" word but to me Aussie wines seem to lack variety within the varietal. I would agree with the Spain and French QPR issue but if price is no object I have found many terrific Cabernets and Chardonnays from California over the years at the $15- $30. Not all of the Chards are overly oaky or sweet and the Cabs can be world class. The top wines from California can be world class. If I want a Rhone style wine then I buy a Rhone wine. I don't think that the wines of California (or anyplace else for that matter) are interchangeable just because they use the same varietal.

Dee wrote on Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:39:55 -0400:

Dee

I did a little too much cutting in this reply but you won't get much of an argument from me about the book "The Judgement of Paris" and the movie, which was even more padded than the book, even if I agree with its premise.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my feelings, too.

OK, here's my list:

Edmunds St. John (Bone Jolly red & pink, Heart of Gold, Rocks and Gravel)

'07 Ridge Three Valleys (the first one I've liked)

Tablas Creek "Cotes de Tablas" red & white

Mark Lipton

There was a time that I wouldn't expend my dollars for Australian either, but there are some good ones, Trevor Jones unoaked Chard for about 12.50US for example is a case in point.

The Molly Dooker as discussed previously is another story Joseph Coulter Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations

Actually, I tend to move towards the Aussie chards for exatly the example you cite...good brisk, unoaked Chards for under $15. Couldn't agree more about the Molly Dooker....I do like it on my pancakes though. I do think that California has swung back to the lighter, less oaky, more Burgundian style of Chards by and large. Leese Fitch, Joel Gott and Tortoise Creek are all pretty good chardonnays for under $15.

Not sure I understand the question or any of the comments. All of California is bad. Not a useful blanket statement. There are good and bad wines everywhere. Maybe CA is not the best buy but there are certainly some marvelous wines. My wife and I have probably tasted at various places over 500 bottles this year alone. Maybe no more than a sip of some. We go to wine events and try all we can. Only way to know what to buy and what you like. I attended one event with 300 wines from

Elyse Chardonnay $25, a host of Zinfandels including Ridge under $25.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I'll keep an eye out for the Elyse. I've never seen it.

As far as Ridge, I like them too. Enough to pony up for Lytton Springs every once in a while. But I sure don't see much Ridge Zinfandel for under $25, and a lot of the zins I see that are on the less expensive end aren't very good. What do you like that is under $25?

I like the Ravenswood Sonoma, at least after it has had a few years of age to settle down. That is a good example for me, since it is in my price range (around $15) though I usually need to cellar it for a few years.

I agree completely with what you say. I would just add that there are many many wines produced in California, and the enormous majority of them are cheap, and either not particularly good or downright bad. The only reason I can think of for Dee Dee to not like *all* California wines is that her experience is mostly with the cheaper poorer-quality wines.

Another addition just came to my mind: many of the better California wines are made from the better grapes used in Europe and are made in imitation of European wines. In a blind tasting of wines of a similar type with wines from both California and Europe, it is often extremely difficult to pick out which ones are from California.