Chianti?

Italy is far more famous than anywhere else in the world for it's mass quantities of cheap jug wine. If I want something cheap to serve at mixed get togethers Italian wines always fit perfect.

I don't think Italy has any lead on decent $8.99 wines. True, some of the Chianti's are good value for that price. So are many wines from California or Australia at the same price. If you're in California you're going to see more cheap lousy California wines. In Italy you'll see more cheap lousy Italian wines than Californian.

Miles, I actually disagree with that. I think in Euro-France, Italy and Span...they have very good inexpensive wines.

In California there are few decent inexpensive wines.

I also think the pricing issue accounts for why the USA has a relatively low consumption of wine per capita.

Europeans have wine as part of a daily regimine and its affordable. Here in USA there is more snop appeal to wine. Sorry, I think it is true in general. Not necessarily in this group. We love wine for the art form, the taste, and a few here,,,the alcohol.

But Italy and spa>

Correct.

I agree.

True, yes.

Yesh!

It's spelled 'Chile' by the way, and, I have not had one yet that is any good.

Right. Thus, marketing cheap decent 'Chianti' here is a reasonable move.

I noted that of all the wine at the party last night (of various points of origin), the $13 bottle of Michele Chiarlo Barbera d'Asti was BY FAR the best.

True, so does California, Oregon, Washington etc.

There are quite a few decent inexpensive wines.

It's a culture thing.

Yes, especially in Italy where very cheap jug wine is served with daily meals. It's a different culture. Even if wine were dirt cheap and decent in the USA people would not drink it with every meal.

Thats simply not true at all. There are numerous decent wines $8-$10. Most of my favorites are from smaller wineries so they're not nationally distributed. Also I do not shop at grocery stores for wine. They have lousy selections at high prices. I go to Costco, Sams Club, Cost Plus World Market or a number of wine warehouse stores. Most of my wines however come directly from small wineries.

Some of my favorite decent CA wines that are nationally distributed are:

Gallo Sonoma Chardonnay or Zinfandel Wente Brothers Chardonnay (They have several in that price range)

There are many many more.

But how would they compare to a $9 Ruffino or Banfi 'Chianti'?

Some better, some worse. I agree, the Chianti's I buy at Costco for about $10 are very good values for the money. I'd have to say the Wente and 7 deadly zins rank quite a bit higher than those Chianti's. The Gallo Zin is about on par. Hard to compare Chardonnays because white wines in general are cheaper than reds.

Cheap wines in the USA have stepped WAY up over the past 10 years or so. Gallo used to be synonomous with cheap jug wine. Thats about all they produced for decades. Not so any more. Same with Columbia Crest who was known for their low end jug wines. They too now produce some excellent quality wines. Quite a number of traditionally low end wine makers have changed their markets considerably. Those wines are bargains because it'll take years for them to lose the stigma of being jug wine producers and thus the prices stay low.

Miles, when I spent a summer in Spain a few years ago I was drinking Rioja for about $2.00 a bottle. The closest quality from California was much higher than $10. Gallo of Sonoma could not hold a candle to these.

In my opinion we simply lack the low prices quality wines that exist in many countries. Perhaps this is due to 3 tier system of distribution, the tax burden on companies, health care cost gone to high or simply the opportunity cost since land is so valuable in California. Either way I don't see the quality in the wines you state vs many from other countries.

We do have outstanding wines in the $30-$75 dollar range however that in Bordeaux/Burg would be more expensive.

My opinion only.

That said I love wines from all areas but each serves a purpose of their own.

I've never tried Spanish wines. It's hard to compare prices when in another country. Have to figure in typical salaries and exchange rates for comparison. You're right though, there aren't many $2 wines that are any good in the USA. Gallo Sonoma Estate wines are easily worth $10 though. They are certainly not jug wines.

Thats true but in the USA people do not drink wines with every meal. It's a different culture. The demand for cheap wines just isn't there. For a winery to produce $2 wines they've got to be able to sell a ton to recoup the costs.

That has a lot to do with it. The inability for wineries to ship direct to consumers in most states makes it impossible for smaller wineries to gain much of a market other than local.

Depends on your tastes. I generally prefer the styles typical of California Reds over those of France and elsewhere. I do enjoy Aussie Shiraz over California Syrahs.

I'm not fond of Bordeaux's. I like a good Cab but am picky and the ones I like are way too expensive. Used to buy Caymus Select for about $25 in the 80's. Now it's over $100. The USA has many excellent wines in the $18-$25 range but they are not well distributed because of the absurd distribution and tax laws as you've stated. I travel to California about 4 times a year and stock up on what I can't buy here.

Thats true. I just prefer the styles predominant in California as well as Oregon and Washington. Willimate Valley has some supurb Pinot Noirs for instance. I have yet to find anywhere in the world that makes a better Zinfandel (Primotivo) than California and thats one of my favorites.

The reasons why wine is not a part of regular daily routine in the US of A:

1. Our puritanical legacy---alcohol is evil, thus Prohibition and regulatory restrictions.

1. Wine is a snobbish enjoyment---this is fostered by point chasers, elitist retail salespersons, wine stewards and the practice of charging double and triple retail prices on a wine list. I don't know how many times I've heard "My customers won't order anything under $xx" Food barns likeTGIF, Applebee's place priority on turning a table over---wine service adds minutes to a customer's visit. Mixed drinks & beer are more profitable.

2. The influence of groups like MADD, well meaning, but constantly lobbying for lowering legal alcohol levels for driver's being charged with being alcohol impaired. How dangerous do you think a driver may be by drinking 2 or 3 double lattes on an empty stomach? MADD also monitors retail venues to ensure that in store tastings are in accordance with State and local laws. Just their presence, curtails these events. Store managers close things down because of the time and expense contesting MADD's allegation. Many times MADD is unaware of changes in local rules or is just overzealous and want no alcohol served in a store regardless of the pertinent regulations The contrast in a State very conscious of MADD and similar groups and those less fearful is dramatic; At Maryland winefestivals you get 10 tickets for one ounce pours and State police with breathalyzers are at every exit and on occasion urge someone to voluntarily take the test. Now you can buy bigger pours and bottles but the casual attendee knows big brother is watching. In Virginia you get unlimited pours and Commonwealth police are less obvious. Required Government labeling also alerts consumers that they are imbibing an evil substance especially if they are with child and driving a tractor or lawn mover.

Many consumer friendly wine education groups have restricted the number of wines per tastings or classes. Often they buy insurance that protects them if someone leaves and is arrested. Sipping and spitting at these events is considered gauche and unsanitary. Now some of these Advocacy group initiatives are credible, like harsher penalties for drunk driving & causing an accident and I can emphasize with the loss of a loved one. But there should be limits on zealotry. IMHO.

Prohibition went out a long time ago and I'd say most were not even alive during Prohibition. Totally different generation.

That is partly true but is starting to change considerably. A couple decades ago when I went wine tasting throughout California most others were very snobbish. Generally only people interested in wines ever went wine tasting. Today when out at the wineries I find a vastly different crowd. The people are mostly newbies just out having fun for the day and wanting to learn more about wines. The snobbishness is slowly dying off but there will always be that crowd.

How are laws in other countries regarding public intoxication or especially drunk driving? In the USA DUI laws in most states have gotten tougher and tougher every year. That probably limits drinking in general while out at a restaurant or bar.

Still, I am seeing quite a number of wine bars opening up all over town at least here in AZ the past few years. They have wine makers on some nights as well as food pairing. It's quite a fun social thing to do and every time I have gone it is not wine snobs attending. Just people out having fun.

Drink. Dish would be Coq au vin.

M.

Tavern_e_lle, iirc.

M.

Not to be confused with "Tavernello", that icon of italian viticulture... ;-)

Ok, to be exact is "TavArnElle in val di Pesa". Other minor spelling corrections are: Mercatale val di Pesa Montefiridolfi Poggibonsi Castelnuovo Berardenga Cerreto San Gusme'.

OK, I stand corrected ... ;-)

M.

filippo,

I had not read UC comments on regional influence on Chianti. He tries to be civil but first you have to swear you allegience to Italian wines only and they he is an OK guy.

Was not really fully aware of all the changes but I am fairly certain that as the French say "terroir" plays the key role with soil, microclimate etc.

I don't really know much about Italian wines but I try. I spent 20 years learning about Bordeaux and Burgundy but to be honest am really almost a novice when compared to others here. Where I live in North Carlolina there really are not an abundance of choices. Yes I can get a Falesco Merlot Umbria or the Montiano...also the Antonori wines. But not much beyond that. Not one retailer had Taurasi Reserva here when checking two weeks ago.

What I find amazing are the tremendous cost differences here in the USA. I beleive monopolies have been created for the distributors that have tremendous clout with our politicians. They limit selection, keep pricing high...we do not really have a free market economy for wine. That is why our pricing is out of control. That is why many here never really experience the love of nice wines.

Despite the fact that we have tremendous wealth here, a majority of people don't have the money to spend more than say $10-$15 a week on wine. I dispute that one can get good wine here for that..but that is a subjective argument.

One day, we will bring down the injustice of required 3 tier distribution.

Thanks for your contributions.

dick

Just try a Selvapiana Chianti Rufina (Riserva) and get back to me.