Chianti?

That makes sense. Both Pinot Noir and Chianti are medium-bodied reds, as opposed to Cabernet Sauvignon and Bordeaux, which are heavier-bodied wines. The flavor profiles of the two wines are quite different, however.

OK, first of all, Chianti is a region in Italy, not a grape type. The most important (sometimes the only) grape of Chianti is Sangiovese. There are other regions in Tuscany that make wine from Sangiovese, but Chianti is the best known and can produce some of the finest wines.

Within the Chianti region, there are eight (I think) subzones, of which the most famous is the Chianti Classico region in the center. However, good wines are made in other regions such as Chianti Colli Senesi. The most basic wines are just labeled "Chianti." Also, wines from Chianti that are aged for a minimum of 27 months in barrel before bottling are classed as "Riserva" and tend to be bigger, more powerful wines.

The most commonly encountered Chiantis are from the big firms such as Gabbiano, Ruffino and Banfi. If you can, look for Chianti Classicos from smaller producers. Two of my favorites are Fattoria Felsina and Castello di Ama. These are wines that actually improve with a bit of age and their Riservas can be quite spectacular (and expensive).

Some links with basic information:

HTH Mark Lipton

1. Many thanks!!

1. What's HTH ??

Jay

"J J Levin" skrev i melding news:v1ggh.22$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe11.lga...

Hope this helps! :-) Anders

I still don't get it, what does HTH mean? ;-)

IITYWYBMAFL?

Jose

To add to Mark's imformative post, I find that Chianti is often a bit higher in acid, than most PNs. While PNs go well with a very broad range of food, one with a tomato base/sauce goes really well with a Chianti. If I see an Italian red-sauce, I immediately think of Chianti, then Barbaresco, maybe young Barolo, depending on other elements, but Chianti first.

I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as good as "sipping" wines, as are many PNs. They thrive with slightly acidic foods. As with many "Old World" wines, they have grown up alongside the food of the region of origin. I think that for once, UC might actually agree with me - though maybe not. I hate to see a distributor of Chianti pouring some nice wines at a "tasting" without the proper foods to accompany them.

Maybe I have always been lucky, but all of the Chiantis that I have purchased/consumed over the last 30 years have been good, to excellent wines. Now I, unlike many in this NG, do still recall the "fiaschi" bottle of Chianti and how retched it most often was. Interesting side note: the bottle shape was a "fiasco," or "flask," but I still recall the wine having been a fiasco in a US sense. The bottle was always good for inserting colored (coloured, for our wonderful UK friends ;-} ) candles and setting on the coffee table, repleat with blacklight posters, etc. Fortunately, those days are long gone, though there has been talk of resurrecting the straw-covered fiaschi for drinkable, but lower-end Chianti. I'm not sure how I feel about that. In the "old days," the bottle cost more than the wine contained inside.

What are some, that you have consumed lately, that you really liked?

Hunt

I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but have tried numerous California Sangiovese's which I find very nice for sipping. Any easy lighter bodied red. In general are there big differences between and Italian Chianti and California Sangiovese? I realize either could be blended although most Californias I've tried are 100% Sangiovese.

The two words are related. "Fiasco" in the UK sense comes (via France) from the Italian phrase "far fiasco" - to make a bottle. It is speculated that the sense of that came from the practice of Venitian glassmakers to set aside imperfect glass to make a common bottle, or flask.

Jose

Until fairly recently, I would have disagreed with you. The earlier exception would have been the Shafer Firebreak Sangiovese, which also had Cab S. blended in. Other than that one domestic Sangiovese, I had yet to taste one, that I would have bought - Atlas Peak Reserve included.

However, about six years ago, I spent some time in the Amador/Sierra Foothills area, and tasted some excellent domestic (US) Sangioveses. And, yes, these are different wines, than Chianti, and good wines all the way 'round. I'm sure that there were and are some, that I have not had the pleasure to sample. As is typical with New World reds, the US Sangiovese wines are a bit more extracted and concentrated, with lower acid, than their Italian counterparts. Good? Bad? Different? I choose "different."

Lately, I've been getting some from the Santa Cruz Mtn. area, via Picchetti, that have been wonderful, though a tad more Zin-like. Or, maybe Zen-like... The biggest problem for most US wineos, is that the really good ones, do not see much distribution, and, in general, the better Sangiovese representatives are still from Italy.

My main references were, based on my wine career, biased toward the Italian Sangiovese wines.

What domestic (again, US) Sangiovese wines have you really enjoyed?

Hunt

Your post is most informative, and I appreciate it. You seem to be quite experienced. What other lighter bodied reds would you recommend that I try, in addition to Chianti, PN, and Sangiovese?

Thanks,

Jay

I am an amateur winemaker. I make a "Super Tuscan" stype wine by using Sangiovese and Cabernet Sauvignon. From my experience I prefere to use the Mid Atlantic Cabernet (where I live - Maryland) to the California Cabernet because the California Cabernet from the Central Valley are just too "Jammy" to make a good blend. The acidity of the Sangiovese and the Cabernet - or Merlot - go together VERY well. I think that perhaps some on the west coast are trying blends with Sangiovse. It is an EXCELLENT grape for blending and if you are lucky enought to get a good Sangiovese, it makes a good wine on its own.

These have been some of my favorite Sangiovese's. Your comment about the better wines not being distributed is correct. While Cambria is a larger winery who distributes their wines worldwide, the Sangiovese is small production only sold locally. Meridian is also a larger winery and makes an excellent Sangiovese but does not distribute it outside the region. I find the larger wineries tend to only distribute their lower end mass production wines. At the winery they often offer some excellent small production wines.

Ivan Thomas, Livermore, CA Cambria, Santa Maria, CA Midnight Cellars, Paso Robles, CA Meridian, Paso Robles, CA

Some other lighter bodied reds are: Beaujolais (though the better examples are usually labeled by "Cru," such as Fleurie or Morgon), such as Drouhin's Beaujolais-Villages and Dolcetto D'Alba from Italy. Also, in case you haven't heard this already, the red wine of Burgundy (the real stuff from France) is Pinot Noir, too. Again, Drouhin's 2004 "La Forêt" Pinot Noir is a decent example. Alas, it's a sign of the times that lighter bodied reds have fallen out of favor and have been supplanted by big fruit bomb reds from CA, Australia and -- increasingly

-- Europe. Lighter red wines are a lot easier to serve with food than the big, oaky fruit bombs.

Mark Lipton

Mark, you're the one who started replying to me, and I've learned a great deal, for which I thank you.

"Big oaky fruity bombs" -- would those be Cab, Shiraz, etc. ??

Jay

Yup, but it's a style that can applied to most anything. There are "modern" or "International" Chiantis that are also oaky fruit bombs. However, it's a lot easier to make a big fruit bomb from Shiraz or Zinfandel than it is from Pinot Noir (though that doesn't stop people from trying).

Happy drinking, Mark Lipton

Here is our old FAQ on chianti:

Chianti Classico Contributors Joseph Rosenberg

Jerry Spotto

What are the subzone of chianti classico?" and "What are the other zones of chiant besides classico?" Joseph informs us "There are no books that I know that delineate zones within Chianti Classico but Victor Hazen's Italian Wine published in 1982 by Knopf talks about charactertistics of each of the commune's cited earlier on pages 35-41 and even throws in a map of chianti classico townships. Any one who took one of my classes was taught about these commune's ala Hazan.

For the record they are:

S.Casciano Val di Pesa--includes Mercantale Val di Pesa, Montefridolfi and S.Andrea in Percussina

Greve--La Mole, S.Polo in Chianti, Strada in Chianti

Tavernalle in Val di Pesa--Badia a Passignano, S.Donato in Poggio

Barberino Val d'Elsa

Radda in Chianti

Castellina in Chianti

Gaiole in Chianti--includes Ama in Chianti

Poggiobonsi

Castelnuevo Berardenga--includes Ceretto, Pianella, Quercegrossa, S.Gusme, Vagliagli

I once tried unsuccessfully to do a tasting with a wine from each of these "townships" but failed because a wine from each township wasn't available. Hazan also thought that outside the borders of classico; chiantis >

montalbano and rufina made excellent riservas. To confuse matters further some chianti zones overlap with other DOC/Gs-

For instance if you grow sangiovese in the Chianti Montalbano zone it can also be used for Carmignano normale or Riserva or Barco Reale; in the Chianti Colli Senese depending on where you are located you can also produce Vino Nobile or Rosso di Montepulciano or Rosso or Brunello di Montalcino. And finally some chianti producers have estates on the borders of two of the zones like Pasolini Dall Onda whose chianti wines had grapes from the classico and colli fiorentini zone.

When I represented Marc DeGrazia in Maryland, Marco had producers in the the Radda, Greve and Gaiole areas so he insisted that only long lived Chianti were made East of the old road (strada) from Florence (Firenze) going south bisecting the Classico zone; of course that does not account for Monsanto or Felsina but it made for good sales pitch anyway."

Jerry added that there are not 5 but 7 Sub-Regions in Chianti:

Classico

Colli Senesi

Rufina

Colli Fiorentini

Montalbano

Colli Aretini

Colline Pisani

Mark - I think that might be the most informative and helpful response I;ve ever seen on this NG. Way to go man.

Actually the subregions are eight now. There's a recent addition:

Montespertoli

Below I have fixed some typos occuring in the localities names (in case someone wishes to update the faqs).

Greetings from Tuscany.

DM

Here is our old FAQ on chianti:

Chianti Classico Contributors Joseph Rosenberg

Jerry Spotto

What are the subzone of chianti classico?" and "What are the other zones of chiant besides classico?" Joseph informs us "There are no books that I know that delineate zones within Chianti Classico but Victor Hazen's Italian Wine published in 1982 by Knopf talks about charactertistics of each of the commune's cited earlier on pages 35-41 and even throws in a map of chianti classico townships. Any one who took one of my classes was taught about these commune's ala Hazan.

For the record they are:

S.Casciano in Val di Pesa--includes Mercatale Val di Pesa, Montefiridolfi and S.Andrea in Percussina

Greve in Chianti--La Mole, Panzano in Chianti, S.Polo in Chianti, Strada in Chianti

Tavarnelle Val di Pesa--Badia a Passignano, S.Donato in Poggio

Barberino Val d'Elsa

Radda in Chianti

Castellina in Chianti

Gaiole in Chianti--includes Ama in Chianti

Poggiobonsi

Castelnuovo Berardenga--includes Cerreto, Pianella, Quercegrossa, S.Gusmè, Vagliagli

I once tried unsuccessfully to do a tasting with a wine from each of these "townships" but failed because a wine from each township wasn't available. Hazan also thought that outside the borders of classico; chiantis >

montalbano and rufina made excellent riservas. To confuse matters further some chianti zones overlap with other DOC/Gs-

For instance if you grow sangiovese in the Chianti Montalbano zone it can also be used for Carmignano normale or Riserva or Barco Reale; in the Chianti Colli Senesi depending on where you are located you can also produce Vino Nobile or Rosso di Montepulciano or Rosso or Brunello di Montalcino. And finally some chianti producers have estates on the borders of two of the zones like Pasolini Dall'Onda whose chianti wines had grapes from the classico and colli fiorentini zone.

When I represented Marc DeGrazia in Maryland, Marco had producers in the the Radda, Greve and Gaiole areas so he insisted that only long lived Chianti were made East of the old road (strada) from Florence (Firenze) going south bisecting the Classico zone; of course that does not account for Monsanto or Felsina but it made for good sales pitch anyway."

Jerry added that there are not 5 but 8 Sub-Regions in Chianti:

Classico

Colli Senesi

Rufina

Colli Fiorentini

Montalbano

Colli Aretini

Colline Pisane

Montespertoli

This is the official website of the consortium of Chianti Classico producers:

Although not being the most typical sample of Chianti Classico I would suggest you to try Fonterutoli Chianti Classico.

Greetings from Tuscany.

DM