I have been looking at a rather expensive piece of equipment for use in a retail wine tasting environment. "Enomatic" is Italian in origin, and is just recently being installed in wine bars and restaurants in the US. The unit instantly replaces dispensed wine with either nitrogen or argon gas, via air-tight tubes in the bottles. The company makes room temp, refrigerated and climate controlled models.
They claim validated testing to support zero degradation of wine quality for
24 days with their system. This is certainly a way to provide measured tastings of expensive wines in a low traffic business, but the cost of the equipment is considerable.
I'm wondering a couple of things, at least: First, does anyone here have any factual info on whether this thing really works as claimed; and second, how do buyers of expensive (US$50+++) wine react to the idea. One perspective is that high-end buyers might think this is a great way to taste before buying, but another view could be that the same buyer trusts the winery, vintage, etc. and has already done enough tasting to buy without the 'insurance' of a taste. The buyer isn't buying the bottle he's tasting from anyway.
I know nothing about the wine machine you mention. However I have been using a wine machine for about 20 years at home, so perhaps my experience will be of a little help.
I use a California Wine Machine that I have not seen for sale in many years. I have it in the wine storage room. When I want a glass of wine, I use a 4 oz measuring glass to draw a glass. This gives 6 glasses per bottle with a bit left over for sediment or a bonus for the owner. At cellar temperature, the wine only has to be heated or cooled a bit to reach serving temperature. Of course in a restaurant or store situation, you might want temperature controls for both reds and whites so that the wine is ready to drink at once.
It is very important to keep everything clean to avoid off tastes. The nozzle should be cleaned with a bit of water and dried with a paper towel after each use if the wine is not likely to be drawn again for several hours. My unit uses stainless steel tubes that dip in the wine, and I find these easier to keep clean than plastic ones.
When you open a bottle of wine, some air gets in before you insert the tap. On my machine, the tubes can be positioned just above the wine surface so that you can flush out thi air with gas and then slide the tubes down into the wine. This may not be important for a robust young wine that is likely to be gone an a day or two.
I once got a tank of nitrogen that had too much oxygen in it. A bottle of old wine slowly became a bit stale over many days. I now use "pre-purified" nitrogen that does not cost much more than the standard nitrogen. Either nitrogen or argon should give good results. The important thing is that the gas does not contain much oxygen.
Unfortunately my state does not allow tasting samples in the wine shop. If it did, I would be tempted to try a glass of a wine new to me before buying a bottle, especially if the wine is expensive. In such a case a tiny sample as small as one ounce would be enough for me to decide if I want to buy the wine.
4 years ago, a fellow in North Carolina called me having returned from a trip to Italy. He described a portion control wine dispenser he saw in a bar into which one could insert a pre-paid "debit card" and taste the various offerings. Since my company works with every mainstream line of wine storage equipment on 3 continents (not including Antarctica), he wanted more information.
My immediate response that it had to be a winery-subsidized, unique creation that they developed to sell their wines. "There couldn't possibly be a viable market for such a creature. And if there were, I would certainly know about it!" said I. (So I was wrong - sue me)
A year later, a semi-retired inventor/entrepreneur in Washington state - maybe Oregon - called me for assistance in locating parts for a custom dispenser that would allow for "ganging" a series of bottles in a restaurant and obviating the need to change bottles mid-shift. We sent him a $24 stopper-faucet assembly. We wouldn't accept payment - a la Brando in The Godfather, we said that one day he might return the favor. (So I was right!)
6 months later, I was introduced by the same gentleman to the U.S. importer for Enomatic. My company is now the exclusive source for them in the state of Texas and we assist residents of the lesser 49 states (just kidding) in connecting with their respective sources - especially west of the Mississippi.
Believe it or not - 2 of the 1st 3 installations were not in New York, Chicago, L.A. - but in Sugarland, TX and Austin, TX ... so much for "beer and BBQ" ....
The machine is everything it claims to be - and more. Most residential applications probably wouldn't justify the expense, technology or sophistication. That's why you won't find the product promoted through traditional resellers or mail order companies. On the other hand, given sufficient commercial volume, the portion control and inventory management capabilities will provide a significant amortized cost savings for larger operations.
When Enomatic is "too much machine" for a home or a moderate sized wine bar, Winekeeper is pretty much the industry standard. Certainly it is the most cost-effective mix of function, mechanical reliability and mfg's support. They've been in business 20 years - same owners - same phone #'s - same location. None of the other 4 alternatives can even approach their standards.
Regardless - the laws of physics aren't going to change. If you introduce an food grade, inert gas - argon or nitrogen - into an opened bottle of wine and maintain a proper seal, the wine will be unaffected for at least a 3 week period - potentially longer.
Buyers love it. As a secondary benefit, it's an entertaining novelty and a great merchandising "hook". Ultimately, like casinos, there will be one on every corner. But now folks line up just to play with it. Retail or restaurant, one can spend a couple of bucks on a taste before blowing real money on a bottle or case lots.
In 2 years, the 3 original installations have grown to a couple of dozen scheduled by the end of the year. Even I don't understand all the technology involved with the computerized hookups to Italy with regard to software maintenenance, but as an old restaurateur, I can appreciate the value of the control and reporting, as well as the merchandising element. At possibly $1500 - $2000 per position, you gotta have the volume to justify it.
If only the TABC (Texas's neo-Nazi liquor control board) could allow a 50 year old man to self-serve himself $10 worth of wine samples .....
"Winekeeper is pretty much the industry standard. Certainly it is the most cost-effective mix of function, mechanical reliability and mfg's support. They've been in business 20 years - same owners - same phone #'s - same location. None of the other 4 alternatives can even approach their standards."
I agree that Winekeeper is by far the most common wine machine now - nearly every place that sells wine equipment has it. While the Enomatic may be excellent in a restaurant or wine bar situation, it likely is overkill for most homes, and perhaps even a few commercial establishments..
The Winekeeper taps appear to have a fixed plastic tube that can not slide to above the wine level to flush out the air that is introduced when the bottle is uncorked. This may be no problem for full, young wines, and even a trace of air might benefit some that are very young. However for those such as myself who open some very old wines, I find a fixed position tube completely unacceptable. I believe the Cruvinet uses stainless steel tap tubes that will slide to allow flushing of air from the neck of the bottle. If so it might be the best choice currently available for those who open older wines and sometimes keep them for several weeks, such as I do. The Cruvinet may be more expensive. However this price difference pales in comparison to the current value of a single bottle of a top older wine. You must carefully check the features of current wine macines yourself, as I have not needed to replace my 20 year old one, and it may well outlast me.
Also, don't bother yourself with those little bottles of nitrogen that have to be replaced all of the time. Get a proper 2 stage pressure regulator that fits a standard cylinder of nitrogen or argon. A "Q" sized tank of the gas should last most people a very long time, and it is not neaarly as heavy as the larger cylinders - you can lift it without risking a hernia :-). You can order the gas nearly anywhere at a welding supply company. You can rent the cylinder or buy your own. As I mentioned in my first post, I aways order the "pre-purifed" grade of nitrogen since I once got a tank of ordinary nitrogen with too much oxygen in it. This may be overkill, but it costs very little more.
You may have it backwards .... Winekeeper provides regulators and commercial grade tubing as a standard - Cruvinet will charge extra on anything but the over - priced "premium" offering ... of course the cost is built in anyway. There ain't no free lunch.
Anyway - Cruvinet fixtures are welded, and therefore, cleanliness isn't next to godliness - it's much more difficult. We've never recommended factory-supplied canisters. Unless you're in BFE, Idaho, a local bottled gas company can provide more convenient and cost-effective local replacement.
Regardless, ambient atmosphere is segregated and there is no "air gap".
With all due respect to individual experience, we do this for a living and among hundreds of applications - between both alternatives as will as the others - no one has re-invented the laws of physics. I have the benefit of having placed somewhere around 1200 of these machines .... The principles remain the same. Service issues are virtually non-existent with Winekeeper - Cruvinet is something different.
As the representative of the clients' interests - in keeping with our primary focus on information, not commissions - there is no objective, technical rationale for the increased price of Cruvinet.
There's some cheap crap in the market - we're not always focused on cost. But Cruvinet has drawbacks and certainly offers no enhanced value for the $. We buy Cruvinets every month for clients - but barring specific parameters to a given application , Winekeeper will routinely provide a more logical alternative.
"Food grade" nitrogen is the term that will comply with local codes and let the local gas company know what you want. For God's sake, don't use anything else!
I wish you would explain this more fully. When I open a bottle of wine, of course some air rushes in to fill all of the space above the liquid level in the bottle. Then I put in the tap, with the stainless steel tube pulled just above the surface of the wine. Then, with the tap pressed open, I run a lot of nitrogen into the bottle, which displaces the air through the tube and out the tap where wine usually flows. I then lower the tube into the wine.The tube is sealed with standard O-rings that allow it to slide and that can be easily replaced. It would appear, from the Cruvinet site, that one can also do something of the sort with the Cruvinet. Now how do you displace the air after pulling the cork with the Winekeeper? Their tap would appear to have a fixed tube, so how to you either displace all of the air above the wine with nitrogen or do something else to force all of the air in the neck of the bottle out of the bottle? As I pointed out, this likely is not important for young wines, especially in a restaurant situation with rapid turnover. However some old wines change very rapidly with just a little exposure to oxygen from air. I am speaking from experience of storing wines up to over 100 years old in my wine machine.
Please do not try to lecture me on nitrogen. I have a PhD in physical chemistry and am quite capable of evaluation of impurities in gas. "Pre-purified" nitrogen is of much higher purity than nitrogen usually used for food, welding, and other such non-critical uses, and it normally is used for research purposes. You can find specifications concerning impurities, etc on the sites of the companies that produce the gas or from literature they give their local vendors.
I usually reply from another address, but tonight I am replying from Google using my Yahoo address.
le/on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:34:12 -0700, tu disais/you said:-
Interesting.
Sorry, no.
Well, my perspective is slightly different, but I hope you find it valid.
My worry is that as we nearly all know, wine can improve quite dramatically with limited exposure to air. I can well imagine that the system will deliver a slug of wine exactly as if it had come out of an unopened bottle, and that the rest of the wine in the bottle will be pretty well unaffected. BUT, when you decant a wine, you expose it to quite considerable oxygenation, as much for that purpose as to separate it from any possible sediment. I don't find the same result in relatively short term and intense oxygenation in a glass. So would your hypothetical top end wine show as WELL when dispensed from Enomatic as it would had it been decanted?
Better than wasting a whole bottle for one tasting, but I have some doubts as stated above.
le/on 4 Oct 2005 22:11:40 -0700, tu disais/you said:-
Some quite interesting stuff.
And you replied:-
That's really not bad for a new arrival. In his first day (under this name - I get a slight radioactive glow from one of his posts), out of 8 posts he's managed to plug his business four times AND get on the wrong side of two of our most highly qualified members.
Now I don't want to be told again by Max that I'm being intolerant, but at his present rate of progress, he's likely to end up in several people's twit filters before the week is out - for all his involvement in the trade.
Austin's is Tuscany Market and Vineyard. It's a really unique concept. A very unassuming "pizza delicatessen" for lack of a better word that has a separate tasting and retail area.
Sugarland is Vineyard on the Square and is more of a wine bar.
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