The last post prompts me to ask if there is any proper etiquette for bringing a bottle of wine to an at-home dinner that one is invited to. I have always bought a bottle much more expensive than I would drink myself since it is a gift. I can say that I have never had anyone serve the wine that I have bought, but have always been served a lesser wine at the dinner.
I can think of numerous reasons for this -- that the wine had already been chosen; that there wasn't enough for everyone to drink the same thing; that my friends didn't want to serve it because (a) they thought it wasn't good enough (b) or they wanted to drink it privately for themselves.
I don't know if any of these hosts even knew of an etiquette - if there is one -- but they all had something in common. I probably am at fault only in the fact that I wanted to taste a bottle of winer that I would normally not be able to afford myself. Maybe that is my karma - that I have chosen like-mind friends. tee hee.
I try to serve the wine brought if it is of good quality, and sometimes not. I have been on the other end and bought a wine I was excited about only to have it sit. That is annoying - and even more annoying to return weeks (months) later and find that bottle still sitting unopened.
Some reasons I might not serve the wine might be if I had already selected a wine I felt was a better match to the food or if I had better wine already. I still ask my guests if they would like me to open it.
I feel it is rude to accept a bottle of wine and then not serve it. I suspect that people not "into" wine do this more often. I am positive that Miss Manners views this differently and that etiquette probably dictates not serving the wine. Screw that. If I bring a special bottle to an occasion then I would like to have a glass. Selfish? Maybe. I feel such things are better shared with others, though. Otherwise keep it at home and just bring a throwaway bottle.
"Dee Randall" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:
This is difficult - I tend to avoid taking wine unless asked, or if it's really a drinks party and there are a selection of trashy bottles around anyway.
It could be for any of the reasons stated, but I always feel a bit uncomfortable (as though it is a game of oneupmanship) to ask them to open a bottle I brought (like *their* wine isn't good enough).
I prefer flowers or chocolates as a present to the host(ess).
Although I was quite impressed with one of my regular customers who came in looking for some wine. He is a big Bordeaux drinker, but was very unsure of which wine to take (he had been asked to 'provide some wine for the dinner'). After umm-ing and aah-ing around the shop he couldn't make up his mind and it was getting late. "Oh", he said "just give me 48 bottles of Taittinger and I'll take them instead".
Generally when I invite friends for dinner I look for and buy wine that goes with each course, so serving what they've brought with them isn't an option unless we drink all of my own choice and want more.
At friends' houses we usually drink what I've brought once we've had their own selection. I don't always know what they're going to cook, and so far I haven't had the cheek to phone up to ask what we're going to eat. Sometimes they tell me, though not on the occasion when the main course was horse.
If I bring a gift, it is a gift for the host/ess, to drink at his/her leisure, and not to be sandwiched in without regard for what has been planned as entertainment for the guests.
Bringing a bottle of wine and expecting the giftee to open it turns it into a gift for me, which is not the general idea of a hostess gift. It can smack of one-upmanship, and can also be interpreted as an insult, along the lines of, "What I pick isn't good enough for you, huh, so you have to bring a failsafe?". I have observed this at homes where another guest pulls the I-brought-some-wine-let's-open-it routine and the host looks askance at a red that is way too big and brawny for the food, or a thin white from a bad year that the guest wants to dump on somebody they think won't know the difference--people are rarely fooled, whether they know a lot about wine or not. The attitude shows.
If you have been to this home before and know that the wine offered will probably not be all that hot, consider separately giving a gift of six bottles that they can use for later dinners. Maybe a birthday present of certificates to a local wine tasting class could get your friends on the trail you travel. Otherwise, just drink what they serve you and deal with the issue as one small endearing flaw in the friendship--you can be sure that your friends get annoyed with something or other that you do, but love you anyway.
Why are you bringing something you can't afford--is this a genuine gift from the heart or just an attempt to impress? Have fun with what you can afford in the company of those who you already know will enjoy the experience. Life is too short!
When I invite friends for dinner, I normally have already selected wines for each course. So if someone brings a bottle, I thank them for the gift, but it doesn't get served then. If you came to my house, you would probably not be served a lesser wine than you brought.
On the other hand, if I bring wine to a friend's dinner, it depends on the friend and the formality of the dinner. Some dinners are like mine, with the wines already planned and my wine won't be served (although I tend not bring wine as a gift to dinners where I expect that). Others are much less formal and the wine *is* likely to be served. For example, I'm going to my brother-in-law's for Thanksgiving dinner. I plan on bringing a couple of bottles of something decent, and I know from experience that he will already have several bottles on the table, and those I bring will just be added to the collection; we'll drink them all.
So the answer to your question is that it depends on the nature of the dinner and on whose dinner it is.
"Dee Randall" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:
I must say you have lucky hosts indeed. I usually get wine that I wouldn't serve from friends who pick it up at the supermarket as the special of the week.
(That said my next door neighbor did come up with 2 great wines recently, but she knows my tastes a little more than most) Even with a good bottle I hesitate to serve it as I normally have already chosen the wine for dinner to compliment the food and in some cases have already opened the bottles.
"Ken Blake" wrote in news:vrv3ebpg57mfc1 @corp.supernews.com:
Good point, It is also a good point to remember who will be drinking those wines. I am taking three bottles of a rather modestly priced White Burgundy for Thanksgiving. I happen to like it and know that it is better than I might get if someone else brought the wine and yet the price point will not embarass anyone as it matches their normal purchases.
When hosting: I generally have wines planned for dinner, unless I've specifically talked to someone re bringing something. Often they've been decanted. For the most part, I accept wine with a big smile and a "I look forward to trying this". And then I put it away. But If I have any clue guest might expect me to open, I'll offer to do so (before dinner if it's sure to be a bad match) in addition to the wines I'm opening.
When a guest: I will sometimes ask if I can bring wine, and if answer is yes I ascertain the menu. If they say "oh just bring yourself", I often bring flowers, wine, or both. If wine, I chose something (a) that I already know, so I'm not dying to taste, (b) that I think they'll like, (c) ready to drink (unless it's one of the friends who actually cellar wine), and (d) that's food-friendly. I hand it to them at the door, and then I'm happy either way whether they open or not.
If you carry a bottle to dinner without arranging it in advance with host, and you really wish to try it, I suggest decanting it in advance and telling host "it's ready" as you arrive.
Dimitri, You of course are entitled to your opinions regarding the opening of gift wine (and indeed you sound like an admirable host and guest), but I think that the etiquette of the situation (which is what the OP asked about) is that a gift is a gift, -- and as such it is entirely at the host/ess's discretion as to how and when the gift is consumed. As a result, I rarely bring a wine that is dear to me when I go to a dinner party. If OTOH I want to bring a special wine to a friend's house, I will typically talk to them in advance to make sure that it would go with the meal, not conflict with whatever wine they have already selected and (perhaps most importantly) be opened during the meal. In such cases, however, I do not really consider the wine to be a gift and will often bring a true gift such as flowers so as not to appear too ungenerous.
I agree, but as a host I will try to open it if I can to show that I appreciate it. People get excited about wines they bring and it does me no harm to open them. If I don't open it I sense disappointment, and I know from being on the other end that I feel the same way.
Well, I like to bring something that I myself would serve. I guess I am not as swank as most folks in this group, because rarely are food-wine pairings an issue. Even when I am hosting and have chosen wines that I like, I see no problem opening something else.
I have an acquaintance who brought a pinot and a cab over. I told him that I had chosen pinot to go with dinner and so we opened his pinot, too. He asked if he could take the cab back with him and I didn't have an issue with that. Was it a gift? I don't know. The distinction is not important.
I guess this much is true. My gatherings are not so formal. If it was truly a formal occasion I would not expect the wine to be opened. Often in those cases I bring champagne. There is no excuse not to pop open a bottle of champagne before dinner no matter the menu! :)
le/on Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:42:15 -0500, tu disais/you said:-
This is a topic that comes up (often around this time of year ;-))) from time to time on the NG, and opinions are quite sharply divided and often passionately held. For what it's worth, this is my take.
Most of my friends know that I have quite a good wine cellar and that I'm interested in wine. So an invitation to dinner is made with that, not necessarily in mind, but as part of the parameters of the invitation, like the fact that we have cooked professionally.
I say this because it slightly skews the normal etiquette, it seems to me. So, in my opinion, under normal circumstances if you are invited somewhere and want to take a present, once the present is handed over, it's no longer yours, and the new owner can do whatever they want with it. Same as for any other kind of present. _However_, in my position, things can work out differently, but remember that this is all a _departure_ from normal etiquette. So all that said, when invited, what I do about it depends partly on who's inviting me. English and Americans often bring bottles to their friends, the French tend to bring "things", a piece of pewter, some flowers, and so on, and we try to reciprocate but in a "winy" way with someting decent and unusual (for France) a vacuvin chiller or a screwpull corkscrew etc. However when I am invited to someone where bringing wine is the norm, I try to match the wine to the person. If I'm invited by someone who has no interest in wine, but likes a glass of something red with a meal, then I bring a couple of bottles of something very drinkable, but not expensive (maybe even more than 2 bottles), with the comment "put that aside and think of us when you drink it". And so on.
However, it can quite often happen that we're invited by someone who's quite interested in wine - perhaps in the hope that I'll bring something appropriate for the meal, or interesting for some reason. Well then I may ask the person inviting me, "Would you like to to see if I can produce an interesting bottle for the evening? If they say yes, then the conversation will then develop a bit further while I find out how many people/bottles, what course, what kind of food. The other day, for example, we were invited by a future B&B owner to see their projects, meet a fellow owner from nearby and eat a roast leg of deer that he'd hunted. I asked him the usual question and decided on bringing a mini-vertical of the best wine from Bergerac, the '96 and '98, partly to see if the '98 was ready - therefore for my own interest - and partly to impress!! (Naughty, but they're that kind of person). If they say no, they've got their own wine planned out, then I may still bring a bottle or two but with the very clear understanding that it's not to be opened on the night.
But the bottom line remains that even if you HAD thought a bottle was to be drunk on the night, once handed over, it's theirs, and they have every right to do with it what they will.
And if you want to drink a better wine than you normally do - invite your friends, and open the decent bottle you HAD been going to take next time with a meal designed to make it shine! That way, you KNOW your good bottle is going to get drunk.
As others have said, a gift is a gift. As an invitee, if I'm bringing a wine I expect to drink, then I bring it in addition to the gift wine. But if I do expect to drink what I brought, I'll inquire about the meal ahead of time and choose something appropriate.
As a host, if I'm given a bottle, I always ask if they'd like me to open it. And if it's from someone who is not wine knowledgeable and brings something akin to a Charles Shaw, then I try to politely steer them to what I've already picked. Having a bottle open/decanted before they arrive always helps. :-)
In France, a gift is a gift. The host is expected to have already put thought into the wine pairing. The most impolite gift is one that inconveniences your host: for this reason chocolates are considered superior to flowers, as there is no vase to search for! (In spite of this, I prefer to give flowers to those I know well). If you give wine, it is for the host to do with as they please. If they say "Wow, this is an even better match that what I had in mind!" and open in, that's their business.
So obviously you should give away wine that you can't live without tasting, though that's a mean sort of attitude IMHO. If I'm giving wine I try to come up with something the person will like. If the host doesn't care about wine, I won't bring a great bottle from my cellar for them, I'll give something else.
As an american who has lived in several countries, I believe this etiquette is correct just about anywhere.
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