France-US co-operation

I have to agree with your observations. From the 10th of June until 18th of June this year I visited both the Alsace and Cotes Du Rhone regions and had no problem because I was an American. I speak no French but do speak a limited amount of German. The French citizens that I met had one interest in common and that was wine. I have visited France every year for the past ten years and will be there again in October and I am sure I will have a splended time once again enjoying the wine and people.

"Max Hauser" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

In the wine and tourist industries you will also encounter people who share our (tourist) interests as well . The weak dollar which is good for many US Businesses and is hell for French winegrowers and US tourists.

Salut/Hi Max Hauser,

le/on Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:51:28 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

Well said, Max.

That's exactly what I find living here.

(:-)))

Well...even I have to agree---prejudice is stupid...its not limited to anti-semetic, Black, H*mo sexual....its prejudice anytime you generalize against a group of people.

I have made anti-France statements here and I don't agree with their Anti-Bush Sentiment....but I also do not agree with Bush. I buy French Wines and refuse to do the O'Reilly Boycott of French wines. I don't have to like French policy or USA policy...but food and wine and the producers of such do not necessarily support politics either.

I hope that my next trip to France...hopefully Spring 2005 will be excellent as well.

Glad your trip was good.

Regards,

Dick

Hi Max

At the risk of incurring the wrath of some of those more sensitive souls, I again place this warning.

THIS POST IS SLIGHTLY POLITICAL AND OFF TOPIC.

Your post reminds me of two trips I made, one in the late '80s (to the US) and the other in 1990 (to France)

In the mid 1980, in a blatant act of state sponsored terrorism, members of the French Secret Service bombed a Greenpeace ship moored in Auckland harbour, sending the vessel to the bottom and killing one person.

As a further example of ineptitude, two French agents got caught by the NZ Police, and were tried and imprisoned.

However, for quite a few years, NZ was treated [by the French] as the bad guys. We were threatened with trade sanctions and had travel restrictions placed upon us, all because they wanted their spies back !

In 1990, whilst working in the UK I decided to take a short visit across the channel. I had to queue at the French Consulate in London and virtually beg for an entrance Visa.

However, whilst in France, I found the French people amazingly well informed, and, without exception, most embarrassed at their government's disgraceful treatment of a respected wartime ally.

Notwithstanding the fact that I do not speak French, I struck only one occasion [at the Gare de Lyon] where "Parlez-vous Nouvelle Zélande ?" didn't get a positive response.

At around the same time, NZ declared itself "nuclear free" - much to the chagrin of Washington, who declared our stance not anti-nuclear but anti-American.

The upshot has been political bullying, from Washington, on and off now for nearly 20 years, some of the most recent being US Under- Secretary Grant Aldonas accused New Zealand of preventing the US from fighting terrorism by maintaining our nuclear free legislation.

However, in four visits to the US since 1987, the subject has never been raised by *anyone* with whom I have been in contact - it is no-brainer: I mean, the populace at large don't know and don't care!!!

It is simply a political "crock of s*it".

I have spent more time convincing people that NZ was not joined to Australia by the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

And the moral of this diatribe - you write it!

Me, I am just about to open a bottle of Oyster Bay Sauvignon to see if I can find "strawberry" - eh winemonger?

It's not just the French who have a distaste for Bush. He's the most unpopular US president (in terms of the rest of the world) for a long long time. And that includes most of his allies (read some non-US news services if you disbelieve me). Which will probably help to get him reelected, just to shove it to the French, or some other easily targetted political football (plus of course Kerry seems to have well and truly fizzled). I believe the world may well be worse off for that. But if someone attacks your leader, the natural reaction is to rally around them, even if they stink to high heaven. Very clever (and cynical) politically really to beat it up for all it is worth. Employ the siege mentality, it's ageless.

And anyone who listens to, and takes seriously, someone like O'Reilly (I assume you refer to Crazy Bill O'Reilly) I would suggest should broaden their horizons a little. And stop watching FOX. Far far right wing propagandists are responsible for many of the problems in the Christian world, just as they are in the Muslim world. Extremists of any variety, left, right, up, down, should all be kept well away from the gun cupboard.

And the only real reason I can decipher for attacking the French so viciously in the US is that Americans know where (or at least nearby) France is, can identify French ppl and their language, culture and produce. An easy political target, particuarly when you consider the US was the major partner in trade. Those fromage eating surrender monkies. How dare they not support a very dubious war after all we did for them in WWI and WWII.

The coalition of the willing part 2 consisted of three countries, one of which supplied a '74 Kingswood ute, Bazza, his dog Gyp and his .303 lee enfield. O and Shazza made the sandwiches. So why aren't ppl boycotting Italy for not being in on the act straight up? Or Russia? Or Germany (they had a Franco-Germanic love-in thanks to the US)? Or any other of the multitude of countries opposed to the initial war? All the countries that opposed it in the UN and other channels? And still do? Or the Spanish? The list is quite long.

It's all politics. That is why. The French are an easy scapegoat. So stop punishing the French. All you are really doing is propogating false predjudice against ppl, who for all their faults, are as innocent (or as guilty if you prefer) as most in this matter.

And judging by some of the blind hatred towards the French that pops up in this NG, the misled visciousness towards the French in the US is at a frenzy. Is drinking a bottle of burgundy really going to end western civilisation? It all seems rather silly to me, even considering the terrible terrible and tragic deep wounds the US have suffered in recent years.

Salut/Hi Mat,

Although I agree with some of what you say, can I ask you very nicely please NOT to allow yourself to be tempted again.

le/on Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:06:17 +1000, tu disais/you said:-

I don't think there's not much of that, Mat. A couple of twits who behave like three year olds exposing themselves to get a reaction, but that's about all. Some others can't resist dragging in a little anti-french (or anti-american) crack here or there, but in general we manage to remain above nationalistic politics.

My main reason for responding though is to ask you all not to continue this thread. This group is about friendship and bonhommie, and discussion of the (manifold on all sides) political shortcomings of one country or another is not going to help. This is especially true in the run-up to the Presidential election in the USA. Inevitably feelings will run high and we risk being polarised and divided, where we should be capable of agreeing to disagree.

Max, I have had a similar experience as yours in my many visits to France. I was in France this year for almost three weeks in Champagne, Paris, and Provance and found no hostility or negativity towards me as an American. In fact the folks in Champagne are and have alway been so overwhelmingly warm that I continue to visit and make lasting freindships there. My conversational French is probably in the "C" to "C+" range ( I have difficulty in certain regions with the local accents especially in Burgundy) but we always seem to be able to converse and exchange ideas. At worst case I've had a few bummer cab drivers but I've had that in virtually every city in the USA! Bill from Ohio. Bi!!

Mat, its not really just a French thing. I am not sure if you hare here in USA or elsewhere but with the Bush-Kerry Presidential election there is not a group that is boycotting Heinz Catsup because of Theresa Heinz Kerry.

Its so rediculous as her husband was a republican that died and she inherited some stock that provides about $50 Million dollars of income a year from Heinz. But she has not real say in the way the company is run. She is not on the board of directors.

Heinz had to put press statements out---see their web site:

It never ceases to amaze me that in a world where we stand for freedom...we chastise someone, punish them for having a different point of view. I think Ian said it best----people need to learn to agree to disagree and move on.

Thats what I have done and I have been buying the crap out of some fantastic French wines the past few years and my only bitch with the French is the really good wine cost to much and all the anti french sentiment does not lower the price so that I can buy more :-)

Why should there be an anti-US feeling among the French? Most people know perfectly well that the American people cannot be blamed for what the US administration did, simply because the majority of the US citizens did not vote for Bush...

Yves