Grosslage

Very interesting, but a slight correction there are now 13 wine regions. The two added were in what was in East Germany.

Sibeer stated: "Very interesting, but a slight correction there are now

Yes I expected there to be a few changes as the source I used was old and probably is based on the basic 1971 German wine law. That is why I mentioned that there might have been some changes. There have also been several other modifications in the 1971 wine law. At one time you could have everything from a Kabinett Eiswein to a TBA Eiswein, so you might see Auslese Eiswein on a label. The law was changed quite a few years ago so that you can use only Eiswein on the label, but an Eiswein must be of BA or TBA richness. The change probably was made because some were even selling Kabinett Eiswein that might be described as "Essence of Greeness"

Reply to snipped-for-privacy@cwdjr.net .

What are these regions called?

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

M.

They are not even called "AP"-number (and have never been, btw). What you can find is something like "LX yyyy[/]03" where "L" designates the lot number (EU labelling requirement), "X" is a letter designating the lab that did the tests, "yyyy" is a one to four digit number given by the lab, and "03" desgignates the year the Prüfnummer was accorded.

The only time one looks at the Prüfnummer is to see whether a given wine was made to be consumed early, i.e. when vintage and Prüfnummer years are equal.

There is a very easy distinction element for dry Austrians to see whether you have a better wine of a given producer in front of you or if you are in the basic range: The alcohol content. Up to 12,

M.

OK, so nothing new. Those were added AGES ago ;-)

So what DO wines taste like from Dresden, Meißen and Jena ?

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

I tasted the range of Schloss Proschwitz at Pontet-Canet last Vinexpo - not bad at all, but not really exciting either.

M.

Fwiw, the wein-plus found the Riesling Spätlese Trocken 2003 of this Sachsen property worthy of 85 points, and at 13% abv that should satisfy Michael...! The other ranking winery in the old east according to wein-plus is the Thüringer Weingut Bad Sulza and their best effort in 2003 seems to be a Traminer Auslese Trocken with 13.5%abv(!) at 88points, described as follows: Tenderly floral and cool herbs in the bouquet with lichees and orange peels. Very clear and typical for the variety, fine-linked acidity, hints of minerals in the background, good extract, very well balanced, reticent, good length.

Now, 2003 was an exceptionally hot year, but with global warming progressing, we may see more usable wines from that area. (Note1: Bad in German is not bad, but bath..) (Note2: Points given in the German wein-plus are 3-5 lower than awarded elsewhere...)

Saale-Unstrut and Sachsen

The best I can remember from reading over many years, is that the wines from what was East Germay were never considered at the top of German wines in general, even back to the 1800s. However there are always exceptions for some years and for a few estates that take special care. You are now seeing a few quality wines coming from other regions of Germany that in the past produced mainly wines that went in blends or Sekt(sparkling wine).

Reply to snipped-for-privacy@cwdjr.net .

Anders, Your experience with German wine far outweighs my own, yet I have read here and elsewhere of producers who release two different batches of a wine that, for legal reasons, must be labeled identically -- with only the foil color and the AP number to distinguish them.

Mark Lipton

Hi Mark The different batches must have different numbers, for sure, but they don't have to have the same labels even when from the same vineyard and of the same ripeness class - some will use a number of *'s (Heribert Kerpen of Wehlen, for instance) and others again a barrel number (Fritz Haag of Brauneberg). Different foil colors or lengths is common too (Brauneberger Hof uses 'Goldkapsel'). What I said was that it was rare, in my experience, to see two perfectly identical bottles with only the AP-number being different. Impractical, but legal. Anders

Prior to the 1971 German wine laws, several words could be used in the name of the wine to distinguish between quality levels. These were sometimes abused, so the 1971 laws put an end to this. However some wines also had label and capsule differences even before 1971. Here are a few examples of now forbidden words from pre-1971 wines I have. Now forbidden words relating to quality are in caps.

Niersteiner Rehbach FEINSTE Auslese 1959, F.K. Schmidt (Fienste = best or finest)

Steinberger Beerenauslese 1959 CABINET, Staatsweingutter (Cabinet reserve)

Bernkasteler Doctor Auslese Eiswein CHRISTWEIN 1970, Thanisch (Christwein = day picked). Today this could not be labeled an eiswein, because an eiswein must be of BA or TBA level, and BA or TBA can not be included on a label that says eiswein. This change in law was made several years after 1971.

Scharzhofberger FIENE Auslese NIKOLAUSWEIN 1970, Koch (Fiene = fine; Nikolauswein = day picked).

Both Schloss Johannisberger and Schloss Vollrads have long used a complicated system of capsule colors and stripes. Schloss Johannisberger has used a coat-of-arms label with their regular line and a view of the Schloss looking up from the river on their top line. J. J. Prum has used gold capsules and long gold capsules to distinguish their better wines. There are many other examples.

Reply to snipped-for-privacy@cwdjr.net .

December 25th.

Minimum is BA level (as in Austria), with no maximum, of course.

^^ FEINE

Feine

December 6th.

M.

December 25th.

Minimum is BA level (as in Austria), with no maximum, of course.

^^ FEINE

Feine December 6th.

M.