Introduction

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Absolutely. This is what I do, just about every Saturday. Always with a cheese course too, I love cheese. Looks like we're both on the same page, my terminology wasn't standard though.

I'll have to pick your brain about where to start with Italian wines at some point. Sadly, my area is pretty limited in them, but I'm sure there are some nice ones.

-ben

Ben, where are you located?

I have similar issue in North Carolina. But I can occasionally find some Italian wines at Costco.

Yes, I know that many people consider esters like ethyl acetate to be "volatile acidity" but to me they're just so different that it doesn't seem right to lump them together. To me, ethyl acetate smells of overripe peaches, not an unpleasant thing and not at all like vinegar. True nail polish remover is methyl ethyl ketone (2-butanone) which is related to acetone, but smells better. Nail polish itself often contains methyl propionate, which like its close relative ethyl acetate has a "fruity"-type smell. So, I reserve the VA moniker to the true acids, and everything else is in a closely related category. FWIW, though, a chemist friend of mine can't stand the smell of ethyl acetate. From conversations with him, I've concluded that it's being partially converted to acetic acid in his nose. For people like that, ethyl acetate is indeed VA.

You've got the edge on me, there, Dale, as I've only had one Gaja wine (but it certainly wasn't a typical Barbaresco). I can well imagine the truth of what you say, though.

Mark Lipton

Southern Vermont. All wine merchants need to buy from state-controlled wholesalers, so they're pretty limited in what they can get.

-ben

Maple Wine! :-)

I mean the reverse - one wine, one variety, but several foods, some of which "go" with the wine, and some of which "do not go" with it. That is a learning experience not often found. The other happens all the time.

Jose

Where to start? That's difficult. Right now, I'm drinking mostly southern Italian and island wines from Puglia, Sicily, and Sardinia. Vinously, Italy can be roughly divided into North, Central, and South. The north can be divided into two distinct sub-areas, grouping Piedmont and Lombardy together (typical grapes Nebbiolo, Dolcetto, Barbera) and Veneto, Trentino Alto Adige, Friuli Venezia Giulia in the other (typical grapes Bonarda, Pinot Grigio, etc.). Many outstanding producers

The central area is dominated by the wines of Tuscany, but Umbria and Lazio also make lots of wine. (Typical grapes include Sangiovese, Trebbiano, Montepulciano, etc.). Outstanding producers include Selvapiana, among many.

The south's production is led by Campania and Puglia. (Typical grapes include Aglianico, Primitivo, Negro Amaro, etc.). Outstanding producers: Mastroberardino (Campania), Taurino (Puglia), D'Angelo (Basilicata).

In Sicily, typical grapes include Nero d'Avola and a few others. In Sardinia, one finds Monica, Carignano, Cannonau, Vermentino, and others. Outstanding producers: Santa Tresa (Sicily); Argiolas, Sella & Mosca, Santadi (Sardinia

I don't understand this.

Do you not understand the concept, or the utility?

Wine interacts with food - it tastes better with some foods, and less good with other foods. It is a point you make all the time, and it is in fact true. Some people think it's BS (after all, Pepsi tastes like Pepsi no matter what).

So, if a certain wine (Nebra, for example) tastes really good with potatoes, but not so good with chick peas, but another wine (Cheltin, for example) tastes really good with chick peas, but doesn't go as well with potatoes, then serving of them together, and tasting all four pairings (that is, drinking each of the wines with each of the foods, and noticing how good or not so good they are) would be instructive.

Jose

I don't see how this falls into regional Italian cooking. Of course any given dish will match well with some wines more than others, but by staying with regional dishes and regional wines one will generally find good compatibility.

Not true...even pepsi does not taste the same with ice cream as it does with potato chips.

I never mentioned Itailian wines, nor did I limit myself to them. But ok, you make a statement. This statement is subject to test and verification, which would lead to greater understanding.

Try that same regional Italian wine with a dish that is neither regional, nor Italian, and it is likely to suffer. But until one actually experiences this, the Great Unwashed may think it BS. ("after all, wine is wine, right?").

Thus, doing something like this is likely to educate the palate.

Not yours of course, you already know this. But for those that don't.

Jose

Ok, you caught me in mild hyperbole. For the ice cream, a 2004 Montana Pepsi would be best, and for the potato chips, the more robust 1999 vintage Pepsi from Texas is called for. :)

Jose

Picking any old wine (say, a California Pinot Noir) and any old dish (say, English roast beef) will be a poor way to proceed. Since Italian cooking and wines are the best in the world (nudge, nudge) it only makes sense to proceed in that way.

Of course. That's why we don't do that, do we?

Regional pairings are a bit of a dogmatic trap. In Italy in particular, you should note that there have been big changes in both food and wine.

Wines do not resemble their equivalents from 40 years ago, in Italy in particular, wines today hardly resemble those that went by the same name even 40 years ago, and the style has changed too. We have gone from rough long aging barolos and very light quaffable dolcetto to overly smooth overoaked drink young barolo and heady tannic dolcetto.

Friuli, a land that produced mostly red wines until the war, now produces almost exclusively whites. Now these happen to be the most serious whites in Italy (great), but in no way can they be considered traditional (unless you accept very recent traditions).

So while there is nothing like a lively low tannin acidic lambrusco to go with the local pork-based cuisine of Modena, many regional pairings are now corrupted by the new style of italian wine.

Same goes for France, while Muscadet and local shellfish are made for each other, the piddly whites of Provence are hardly a match for the great seafood we have here (the area is best at producing reds!), and land-locked areas like Chablis are dedicated to making wine that is perfect for the fish that comes from hundreds of miles away.

Hybrid matches are great too, nothing goes better with a Castelmagno cheese from Piemonte than a great Sauternes, and vice versa great french/venezuelan chocolate from Voiron or Cluisel are fantastic with a Recioto.

So in fact, breaking the straight-jacket of regional wine and food pairings can be very rewarding, in most cases I recommend it.

Mike

True..

True, which is why I am buying more southen wines lately. They're more traditional, in general, than the northern.

And by the newer styles of cooking. That's why I am trying the Slow Food approach.

But most people should start with regional pairings, then go from there. Regional pairings have established themselves over long periods of time.

Excellent, thanks! I have had quite a few Primitivos, though it was before I actually made any effort to keep track of what I was trying. I might need to take a ride over to NY to a bigger, less restricted shop to explore some of the Italian offerings.

-ben

Well, no.

If you do this, you may (I'll accept your premise - wink wink) always have good pairings and a good dining experience, but your palate will not expand. You will gain no =understanding=, and the premise that other pairings don't work as well (or work badly) would be a matter of faith, not knowledge.

Jose

Michael, you are an American of Italian heritage - and you choose to embrace that heritage.

I am a New Zealander of Irish / Polynesian extraction - where there is no established wine heritage.

I choose to be multi-dimensional very much in the Ed Rasimus mould, as outlined elsewhere in this thread.

I do not drink beer; I rarely drink spirits; be damned if I am going to call French or Italian or any other region as *mine*.

To say that "most people should start with regional pairings" is simplistic at best and plain stupid at worst.

How is another country's traditional regional cuisine relevant to someone living in New Zealand or Swaziland or Argentina - or even the USA - except as some reference point upon which to base ones own experience.

I choose to be international in my approach - one rule "No Rules"

So, I will drink Pinot Noir with lamb; and plenty of other wine/food matches which sometimes work and oftimes doesn't.

But this is *my* experience - not right and not wrong - but mine !!!!!