Napa Trip---French Laundry etc.

About 75 Days out I asked a credit card concierge to make the res for me and I have them a 10 day window. They did it exactly 60 days out.

Just out of curiousity, how far ahead did you make reservations? Jim

Richard wrote on Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:27:26 -0400:

RN> Not really sure if expectations were to high but the food RN> was outstanding, the wine excellent. Service GREAT! In RN> addition to the 9 courses were several tidbits that the RN> kitchen kept sending out. So why not the best meal ever? RN> Honestly I am not sure. Perhaps the absurd pricing--no, RN> that is just money.

An interesting route to obtaining a reservation. I'd never thought of that but I don't think there is that sort of card among my collection. Even if I cannot contemplate eating much of that menu these days, can you say which credit card you used and approximately how much the meal cost?

James Silverton Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Sadly, I carry the The titanium Centurion Card from American Express that carrys a hefty annual Fee. They did NOT get me into the FL.

The card that did was my "Free" Nordstrom Visa Signature card.

The cost of thre meal with wine and extra tip was $500 per person.

Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive amounts of food as part of high quality, especially on tasting menus. For that reason I am unlikely to try a tasting menu at most places and am unlikely to go to a restaurant that does not have a la carte choices or at least a tasting menu of just a few courses. Another problem with tasting menus of a large number of courses is wine unless the party is large, everyone orders the same thing, and one can justify ordering a bottle or half bottle to go with each course for which wine is desired. One indication of a great restaurant used to be that not only were they known for the quality of the food on the menu, but you could just order what you wanted without a menu and they would cook it for you. You of course would have to make your request ahead of time if you wanted something that took many hours to slow cook etc. This sort of service seems to be gone in the US, at least. It requires a huge staff, a kitchen that makes nearly everything fresh each day, and that has all of the basic sauces always at hand with which to build compound sauces.

I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought was done right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US, and their tasting menu was about 10 courses. However each portion was a very small jewel. You did not feel bloated before the meal was over. Unfortunately if you order the tasting menu at most of the top rated restaurants in the US today, you are unlikely to be able to eat everything, and if you did you might feel like an old Roman figged pig :-). In old Rome, pigs sometimes were fed a huge amount of dried figs. Then they drank a lot of water. This caused the figs to swell and bloated them greatly. Then they were cleaned and cooked. The process was supposed to increase the quality of the meat.

Dick, First off, thanks for the trip report. I don't know if I'll ever eat at FL, so hearing firsthand reports such as yours (and Ian Hoare's several years ago) may be as close as I ever come to it. Having said that, though, I typically expect to pay about the same for food and wine at a top restaurant (and even at many second-tier places). Since wine is an integral part of the meal IMO, why shouldn't I pay about the same for it? YMMV, of course.

I have several thoughts about this. Firstly, while I haven't eaten

*that* many tasting menus, those that I have had haven't been excessive at all. The meal at Manresa that I posted back in '05 involved at least 12 courses, but they were all very small in size and spread out over 4 hours, so I left there feeling full but not stuffed at all. I've also had tasting menus at Charlie Trotter's in '99 and Tru last year, and neither was overly much food. Having said that, though, I must add that I regret the change in the '90s in most high end American restaurants to bigger portions of food. Very often the portion of the main course that I am served is more then enough for most normal appetites and certainly more than I serve at home. If anything, I find that the tasting menus I've had have involved less food than standard a la carte dining. YMMV of course.

Secondly, you are correct that wine pairing is difficult with a tasting menu, but all of the restaurants I've been to that offered tasting menus have also offered wine pairing with each course. That means, however, that you get no discretion over the wine choice, so you are at the mercy of the sommelier/wine director. I don't think that I've ever taken the wine pairing option with those (few) tasting menus I've had because there were other bottles on the wine list that were more interesting to me and because I love the intellectual challenge of finding my own pairing.

I will be dining with my mother in SF to celebrate her 80th birthday in late December and may very well end up eating a tasting menu. If so, I'll report back in due course.

Mark Lipton

I have eaten at C. Trotters, this was much more food. Normally, after tasting menus of very small portions I am satisfied but not stuffed. In this case that was NOT the case. Could have been that food was more rich and eating much later than normal.

The wine list was GREATLY overpriced. For example Schramsberg that was $12-$14 everythere in the area even at Bouchon was $20 at FL. I think that was a bit greedy. Just my opinion.

On the other hand the LP Grand Siecle was $40 a glass, it was a very full pour and was a good value relative to the Schramsberg. So I had that with the first dish.

The El Molino Chardonnay is $125 on their menu and I had elsewhere in Napa area for $80 and you can buy at winery for $45.00.

The wine was as much as the food, but not all wine is equal and in my opinion some was excessive.

I was not told I could not email it but if anyone really wants I scanned the menus to a PDF and I have a 100 page Excel wine list they had sent the week before the meal.

I had planned about $1000 mentally before the trip. The food was outstanding but I had thought the wine would not have been so outrageously priced relative to other quality establishements in Napa area.

fyi

Hi Richard, Wow! Sounds like an expensive meal, but with good wines it could be "reasonable", if you can write it off on your taxes as a business expense. :-)

Dick R.

I think the Tyco guy Dennis Kozlowski did that already...did not work well for him :-(

That does sound crazy, Dick, and I wonder what Thomas Keller is thinking? Perhaps he's just avoiding criticism of not serving enough food, but I'd hope that anyone willing to go there understands that it's about quality not quantity. Still, I haven't walked in his shoes...

And that's the real point, I think. I don't mind spending as much on wine as on food provided that I don't feel that I'm getting ripped off. When I encounter an overpriced wine list, I usually cherry pick the 1-2 "value" wines that I can find and build my dinner around them, in which case the wine/food ratio is usually less than 1 -- their loss!

Yup, overpriced. Maybe they just figure that most people eating there are on expense accounts and don't give a shit. FWIW, when I've eaten at Michelin-starred restaurants in France, their wine lists have been very reasonably priced.

Thanks again, Mark Lipton

Richard wrote on Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:14:10 -0400:

RN> The card that did was my "Free" Nordstrom Visa Signature RN> card.

RN> The cost of thre meal with wine and extra tip was $500 per RN> person.

I guess I won't being going that route :-( All my credit cards have no fees since I no longer have an employer to pick up fees. AFAICT, a Google search indicates that cards with "concierge" services are pretty steep. Relatives in San Francisco who

*might* be inclined to try the French Laundry suffer like me from the effects of a Scots upbringing, even if the concierge service was news to them too :-)

I hope you enjoyed the experience!

James Silverton Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

I would like to make a correction for the record here.

My main issue at French Laundry was not the food as it was spectacular but it was the pricing of wine.

While expensive I did not realize that the wine had wine service included. I know the food did. If you considered a 15-20% amount it really was NOT that different than other places.

I felt I needed to correct the record.

That said, I did not know that when I left an additional gratuity that night and have no issue as it was the absolute best service I have ever had.