NYT article: The 'Napafication' of Rioja

Thanks for posting the link. Like many other things that represent cash cows, Rioja has probably been overexploted and oversold for years now. The story in Spain is about the other regions making increasingly good wines.

Mark Lipton wrote in news:rrkQe.287085$x96.80482 @attbi_s72:

I was trying to buy a bottle of Rioja Reserva today and encountered one, the name excapes me, which advertised aged in American oak for 22 months, Tradition would call for French for 12 or so. I passed on that one for the Marques de Cacacares and M. de Riscal.

Actually, I believe that the tradition *is* to age in American oak for extended periods of time. The new, "International" Riojas are probably more likely to use French oak, but my guess is that the main difference is that they use a higher proportion of new oak than the more traditional bodegas. I also would suspect that traditional producers age their wine in barrels larger than the barriques popular among the International set. One of our more knowledgable Iberophiles can probably set the record straight on this.

Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton wrote in news:5epQe.313953$xm3.310053@attbi_s21:

Looking for that insight, I know that the reserva's that I have had in the past have not been big oak, but then reserva only requres 12 months while Gran Reserva, which I do not tend to like requires 24 months in cask (Hugh Johnson's word)

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote in news:1125247303.996165.225200 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

That is absolutely the point. A good friend of mine sent me the link to the NYTimes article which I read promptly and found accurate as usual (I envy the U.S. reader for the quality of your newspapers).

However, and even if I am not too nationalist about wine (several countries represented in my, err, cellar, with plenty of french and Italy growing fast), I find myself coming back to Rioja more than often. Yes, the interest is spreading to other areas, but Rioja is still capable of making some of the finest Spanish wines.

Best,

S.

They apparently use the plain "Rioja" designation that comes between joven and crianza.

M.

Michael Pronay wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@pronay.com:

Michael, there is no such label. In fact, they use the "joven" which just does not indicate anything. But this only applies to their basic wine, Finca Allende. If memory serves, both Calvario and Aurus have a Reserva backlabel.

However, I know of excellent producers that age their wines for longer than the periods required by the Reglament and use lower grade backlabels. For example, a small property which I love, under the name Ostatu, has a crianza that ages longer than 12 months and is not released before 36 months and it is still labeled as a crianza, when it could display the Reserva backlabel. Their current offering is Crianza 2001 (a beautiful wine, btw). They do not make a Reserva or a Gran Reserva.

Best,

S.

I don't know whether it's compulsory to have a back label.

OK, so here we are.

Of course it indicates something: the geographic origin of the wine.

Nothing new under the sun. Old style reservas from traditional bodegas have been known to be released older than other bodegas's gran reservas.

M.

Michael Pronay wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@pronay.com:

Any wine wanted to be sold as Rioja has to carry one of the tiny low backlabels that mark it as an authentic wine from Rioja. It does not mean that it is a good wine (lots of crap from Rioja). It just confirm its origin.

I think I expressed myself badly. My point was that it just said "Rioja" and the vintage. THe other three backlabels say "Crianza", "Reserva" or "Rioja" besides the vintage.

Why do I feel that you do not simpatyze with my writings? Anyway, my point was that Ostatu Crianza, even if it could carry a Reserva backlabel, carries a Crianza one.

And, while a Reserva can be put on sale after a Gran Reserva from the same vintage, there is a key difference. Reservas only have to age 12 months in barrel out of a 36 months total, while Gran Reservas have to spend 24 months in barrel out of 60 months total. A wine that spends 12 months in barrel and 10 years in bottle is not a Gran Reserva, but a Reserva.

Best,

Santiago

Until here it's clear.

OK.

I don't know, it could also be my bad command of the English laguage.

What still don't get: The wine in question is sold as "Rioja

19XX" (or 200X) on the main label. Does it carry a back label, yes or no? Apparently no (correct me if I'm wrong), does that mean it automatically quailfies for the lowest possible category, Rioja joven? Is there a "Rioja joven" back label? Is the use free or compulsory?

Sorry, not at all. I guess this is a series of misunderstandings, most probably my fault.

Quite clear, no problem. What I wanted to say is that in the old days traditional bodegas marketed Reservas with say 3 years oak plus 5 years bottle, while their Gran Reservas were more along the

5 years oak and 7 or 8 years in bottle line. Such a plain reserva would legally qualify as gran reserva, of course. Generally these reservas were better (and older) than gran reservas from lesser producers.

M.

Hi

driving today from Bilbao to Girona, went through the Rioja, from the Alavesa area, all brick red clay, to the other end where the earth turns a light tan (and past the Rioja, totally chalk white!). What is striking is that not one of the vienyards visible from the highway had a single blade of grass growing on it...

Hey Santi, had dinner at Etxanobe last night in Bilbao, and agains the recommendations of the sommelier I ordered the Guitian Godello... no barrique of course.

Cheers

Mike

Mike,

This is changing, sadly. If you paid 13 euro for the wine, it could have a

100% markup which is not bad.

I am back in the Loire next October for the 7th time (if memory serves). Wether I go to the Midi or not will depend on a University hiring me to teach their students of Marketing for a few days. I am always open to hear proposals ;-).

Best,

Santiago