Poll: Americans visiting French wineries

I can think of two separate Americans offhand who have told me upon each of their return from Europe (one Italy, one France), that the wine was not only better than it is here, but also that they could drink lots more of it because it contained no sulfites and therefore did not cause hangovers. I have no idea where they got this (mis)information, but nonetheless, it appears to be out there.

Moi! :-)

None, save one who served me one "minimally sulfited" cuvée among the 16 barrel samples he presented in his cellar.

Marcel Lapierre in Morgon.

Mark Lipton

Excellent

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m20.aol.com:

cation practices.

I have visitied wineries in theLoire valley, Champagne, Burgundy and the Rhone (Nand S)

the matter has never come up to my memory. I do know of at least one who does not filter (La Garrigue) But the test for me ultimately is in the tasting.as it is much less language nuance specific than discussions of craft.

Close to 100 in Bordeaux, Burgundy, Loire, Champagne, Rhone, Alsace, Languedoc, Var, Provence, and many small AC's throughout France.

Never, in fact during my last visit to Bordeaux a number of Chataeux (most classified) were sulphuring while we were there.

IMO, most of the winemakers in France were much more open about what they were doing in the winery than their American counterparts. They showed us the micro-oxygenation process, concentrators of all types, and numerous technologies employed to (again in my opinion) "Parkerize" the wines and get big scores.

Bi!!

When you take the wine in wich he uses no so2 out of the cellar and the temp is above 16 degr celcius you get problems. The wine is unstable. Most of his wine is treated with so2. so2 used in a sensitive way is no problem. Peter

Cherie, my take on this is:

1. They are on vacation and everything tastes better on vacation especially local beverages from the place one is visiting. Have you ever had a Guinness in Dublin, Ireland and compared it to one poured in Dublin, Ohio?

1. They wines that they drank didn't travel far and were probably handled better between winery and palate.

2. The Europeans tend to eat better food and more wine friendly food than in America and Old World wines tend to be more food friendly than New World wines.

1. Europeans tend to actually eat food with wine.

2. Cheese....'nuff said. Bi!!

Sounds reasonable. Plus, they may have heard this from other misinformed vacationers, and self-fulfilling prophecy did the rest.

First of all, I agree with Bill's response. And I'm not surprised that you were told this. I actually have heard one person return from Italy and give me the "no sulfites, no headache" argument. She never went to a winery, she just drank nice wine al fresco in Rome. I asked her where she got her info, she said from her (American) tour guide. I don't think the tour guide was duplicitious, just misinformed/ignorant/gullible (kind of like the people who forward emails re the missing Penny Brown, how Bill Gates will give you money for forwarding this email, etc). Unfortunately there's not a snopes.com or purportal.com for wine (though, like those useful sites, most people wouldn't use anyway. Sigh).

As no one was arguing whether French wines actually do have sulfites, I thought it was important to discern whether it was true that the "two-faced French" (OP's term) winemakers go around telling patent absurdities. The OP stated that "Nearly every American who tours the wine region in France comes back to the US and asks if there is sulfites in the American wines that I sell. I say "of course there is". I am then told of their trip to France and how they were assured by the wineries that they never use sulfites in their wines. (the same way they dont add acid or grow Chambourcin either). Since the French are so good at lying to Americans,, these tourist come back to the US and make wild accusations that French wines are superior to American wines because they dont use sulfites. Dont believe me? Contact any French winery (as an American) and ask them if their wines contain sulfites. Dont take my word for it." I thought it was worthwhile to see if wineries actually said that.

I hope you'll ask when you're in France! Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

I know for a fact that my friend who visited France did not visit any wineries. Her trip was solely limited to Paris, and she stated how great the wine was in the restaurants, even just the most basic "table wine", and that you don't get headaches because of the lack of sulfites. The couple that traveled throughout Italy may or may not have visited wineries. They were referring to the wine they drank wine al fresco with dinner everynight, but I don't know who told them about sulfites. I will pay attention to what I hear and who I hear it from this summer though!

Great thread, Thanks for clearing this up for us.

][] ] 1. They are on vacation and everything tastes better on vacation especially ] local beverages from the place one is visiting. Have you ever had a Guinness ] in Dublin, Ireland and compared it to one poured in Dublin, Ohio? ]

Bill, that's true of course. But having been corrected with Monty Hall I feel I can point out to you that the Guinness in Dublin tastes better, because it is better. :) Not the same brew. In fact, "english" guinness differs from Irish, also. I believe -- and was informed by the barman over a pint last 17 march -- that the french is the "same" as the english.

This is perhaps equivilent to the various american budweiser breweries producing slightly different products.

-E

Probably thousands. No hiding I'm an amerloc either, although I do speak the lingo.

] B)Did that winemaker(s) say they did not use sulfites as a stablizing factor? ]

No one has ever made this statement, except an "organic" producer of clairette de die, who said the wine (7%, and not terrif) should be consumed within the year.

] C)If so, who is this producer? ]

Sorry, can't remember, maybe 15 years ago.

I'll just add that slagging off the french is a pretty useless excuse for correspondence in this or any other group. (That's for the OP obviously, not you Dale!)

-E

Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

le/on 08 Apr 2004 17:08:53 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Well done!

I have, though not being American, maybe I shouldn't count. However I AM british, and although I now speak pretty fair French I didn't when I started visiting wineries. Equally, although I now know enough about wine for winemakers to realise that it would be unwise to try telling me porkies I didn't when I started visiting over 25 years ago.

Never, except one, and that on only one wine. However, to be scrupulously accurate and pedantic, there IS a difference between using "sulphites" and using SO2 gas on barrels or dosing with Potassium metabisulphite. A winemaker, faced by an american (who he knows to be hypnotised by "sulphites") who asks "Do you use sulphites" might just possibly say "no" when he uses SO2 gas.

Richard Doughty - he has a dry white, whose name escapes me, which is made with little or no added SO2.

I am SURE you're right, Dale, this makes eminent good sense. Plus the fact that French wine is designed to be drunk with food and is most often drunk that way here.

Yes, I've been to the brewery (and to far too many Pubs in Ireland) and they explained that it doesn't travel well and there is a pasturization process that they use for the US market. I would add that bar tenders in the States tend to draw it way too fast. The US version is a bit sour to me but what goes better with smoked Irish salmon, brown bread and Irish butter than a Guinness in Ireland? Bi!!

There is? I didnt know this. Can you please explain the difference? LOL

Dear All

I have received groups of US Tourists who often think that in France we don't add sulfites to our wines consumed in France but for all wines exported to the US, Japan etc we do.

Not true, all of our wines are sulfited with the same amount of SO2. We do try and limit the amount of SO2 added and if you have a good year and the grapes are clean then only small amounts are needed.

I do know one wine grower in Epineuil (15 km from Chablis), who produces a Bourgogne AOC Epineuil without adding sulfites. I have tasted it and it is excellent. I still have one of his 2000 vintage which still has many years to age. I don't know if it is the fact that only the healthiest, ripest, cleanest grapes are chosen to go into this special tank with extra care during the vinification and bottling or the fact he doesn't add sulfites.

One point to note is that grapes naturally produce small amounts of SO2. If you add this fact with top quality grapes and careful vinification, it is possible to produce unsulfited wines in small quantities.

Marc

"Dale Williams" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m20.aol.com...

Dear All

I have received groups of US Tourists who often think that in France we don't add sulfites

but for all wines exported to the US, Japan etc we do.

Not true, all of our wines are sulfited with the same amount of SO2. We do try and limit the amount of SO2 added

and if you have a good year and the grapes are clean then only small amounts are needed.

I do know one wine grower in Epineuil (15 km from Chablis), who produces a Bourgogne AOC Epineuil without adding sulfites.

I have tasted it and it is excellent. I still have one of his 2000 vintage which still has many years to age.

I don't know if it is the fact that only the healthiest, ripest, cleanest grapes are chosen to go into this special tank with

extra care during the vinification and bottling or the fact he doesn't add sulfites.

One point to note is that grapes naturally produce small amounts of SO2.

If you add this fact with top quality grapes and careful vinification, it is possible to produce unsulfited wines.

Marc

"Dale Williams" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m20.aol.com...

] On 08 Apr 2004 17:08:53 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam (Dale Williams) said: ] ] [] ] ] So here's the poll: ] ] A)How many have visited a French winemaker(s)? ] ] ] ] Probably thousands. No hiding I'm an amerloc either, although I do ] speak the lingo. ] []

Apologies for responding to my own post, made late in the night, the number is actually less than 1000, I believe, but greater than 500.

-E