Bias Towards French Wines

I think you are touching on a lot of interesting points in a very confused manner.

You cannot simply state that Sauternes or Trockenbeerenauslese as a category are tasty. Sauternes is an appellation that includes producers that range from the sublime to the ridiculously bad, and one might say the same about Trockenbeerenauslese, which is another category entirely, a measure of grape must richness applicable to any wine area of Germany or Austria. So, which Sauternes is tasty, and even more specifically which TBA?

Wines from Spain or Italy as good as France? Certainly, but which wines are you referring to? It is hard to reason in terms so broad.

Agreed that Lambrusco would have satisfied the Petrus'n'Coke drinkers for a fraction of the cost, but does anyone care? Petrus is happy I am sure... ;-)

The whole world pays through the nose for top Burgundy and Bordeaux? No, only a small percentage of the world's drinkers do. True there is a bias, but even here in France the average consumer who wants to impress at a dinner party or a restaurant will order a Bordeaux (less often a Burgundy), ignoring that even in this country there are excellent wines at a better QPR in regions like the Loire, Alsace, Southern Rhone and others.

Given the above, and in the spirit of your email, trying to extrapolate as generic a statement as possible from my limited but not trivial wine experience, my impression is that in France I can drink truly excellent wine at prices ranging from 5 to 12 Euro, while in neighbouring Italy (and I am a native italian that spends a few days every month there) for that price range it is almost impossible to find anything comparable in quality. Note that 8 years ago I would have firmly stated the opposite, wines prices in Italy have gone throuhg the roof since.

Mike Tommasi wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:

I agree!!!

So true also in Spain. 8 years ago (about the time I got interested in wine), I could find very interesting wines in the 5 euros range. I learnt a lot in the sub-1000 pesetas (equivalent to 6 euros) with wines from the known and the emerging D.O.s. No longer. Plonk wines in that category probably remain in the sub-7 euros (account for inflation, if you want) but the good ones have even doubled its price.

80% of the new wines that arrive to the market are over 15 euros now in Spain, it does not matter if it comes from a prestigious D.O. where land is expensive or an emerging one. I would not care if the wine was good, but 75% of the time, they are selling ordinaire wine in a nice bottle at an outrageously price. And many of the wines carry an oak excedent that the grapes did not merit in any way.

At the same time, dealers are bringing excellent wines from other countries, and you can find austrian whites that are better than 90% of the spanish whites at a fraction of the cost. I have even bought and drunk Premier Cru Chablis from good vintages at prices in the 6-7 euros frontier. Last week I bought a Bordeaux Superieur at 4,85 euros in El Corte Ingles which was very, very nice. A good merlot based blend with a touch of oak, not a single defect, and easy to drink. Ok, not La Conseillante, but better than 99% of the spanish wine below 5 euros.

And then I started thinking of what I had written a couple of days before, and went back to the shop and bought 6 more bottles to help this good producer get out from the crisis. And my wallet, I must add.

Best,

S.

"Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "

Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.

"Somehow the whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from France, paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality, wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a lot less."

Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really prove your point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive wines in the world. Only Yquem even comes close to the release prices of most top German TBAs.

" In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished when they realized the top wine voted was American. "

Recent, or 1976?

While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate the wines of many countries, and prize the differences. One strength that France does have, rivaled only by maybe Italy, is the large variance in styles that are offered at "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about France to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region offers a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others would offer US or Australia as examples, but to my tastes they offer fewer expressions of styles (especially in whites) than France.

"Richard Neidich" wrote ....

Dick,

I've told you before - you really must stop reading comic books!!!!!!!!!!!

hny

st.helier

- *very* well roared, lion!

M.

That is blasphemy....:-)

Gentleman: You've been had---- someone, not from afw, said I could not write like a rightwinger---Using Goebbels as a role model I mixed a minimum of facts and lots of hot button phrases. Its been a boring rain soaked day I'm bored with American football, although I did enjoy the Notre Dame defeat---talk about hype- I'm still pissed they let Reagan play George Gipp.

Now 5 things I like about France.

1. They inspired the American revolution and in typical fashion got a tad carried away
2. They were our protector from Lafayette thru Teddy Roosevelt. They helped the US as a democracy and empire.
3. After World War I they hosted numerous Americans especially those of colour. Spending exile time in Paris was Sidney Bechet, Josephine Baker and many other's first breaths of freedom.. Any country that could stand James Baldwin for more than a week, is ok by me.
4. Long before Abe Beame and Ed Koch were mayors of New York(considered a break through) Leon Blum, a Jewish Socialist was France's Premier in the

1930's.

1. Yes St H lots of French welcomed the GI's to France, shaved the heads of the collaborators and let the Germans buy bad wine while they hid the good stuff. I make no moral judgments but being under the heal of the Nazi's forced people to cooperate or starve. The Resistance began in 1939 and never stopped,for once French of different politics united; and even if we had to endure De Gaulle's tantrums we did the same for a real anti-Semite--George Patton. SomeFrench like the Dutch and Scandinavians harbored Jews from a one way ticket to the camps. Compared to the collaboration of the Rumanians, Poles, & Austrians I don't think the French let their humanity down.

All governments are hypocrites, not seeing that they are guilty of the same flaws as they see in others. Its caused hubris which gets followed by hemlock. I was in Burgundy & the Rhone and ran into some surly waiters but you have that at the Stage deli besides that the French brought pommes frites to America--whats not to like. Any nation that can bring Petrus, d'Yquem & Guigal can't be all bad

The piece I did on a lunch with Hilary Clinton and Jane Fonda as seen by the "right" is too much in bad taste even for me, so I'll give you a bit if I can find it--you have to write me for the rest.

Here's a bit of the latest on Hillary & Jane Fonda, two bete noirs of the fundamentalists...I'm editing the truly obscene

Sludge Report :Liaison between Hillary Clinton and peace activist Jane Fonda revealed.

"I had tea with Jane', the former First Lady said, "I was halfway though the organic Earl Grey, when I started to tremble from looking deeply into her deep eyes. Eyes that saw war and tried to stop it. An ---- that was mounted by Ted Turner, Tom Hayden, Ho Chi Minh and the backfield of the LA Rams. My face got flush, perspiration was all over. My loins were aflame with desire. Jane reached for my hand. I couldn't take it any more and I jumped Jane's ----------. It was better than Joan Kennedy and as we rolled around the floor of the Stage Delicatessen, out of the corner of my eye I saw Ed Koch giving me what I thought was two thumbs up---I was wrong he just wanted his thumbs in my ------. It was then I knew I had to finish what Bill had started. I got on my cell and called Monica..................

LOL! _Totally_ off topic, but funny. :^D

Forwarding...

S moT

Calm down Mike - Take a deep breath!

Children will be children!

Now, did you open that dessert wine and Sauvignon I left with you?

Happy New Year, mate - and best wishes to Cathy!

You do realise that the whole four of us were so totally enchanted by that section of coast between Marseille and Toulon that we are coming back - probably 2007!

Now, April is a reeally nice time to visit NZ -

Regards

st.helier

Joe, now everyone's more or less calmed down, I want to make a suggestion. Don't take dumb challenges. Your post, joke or not was off topic and offensive, not because YOU believe what you wrote, but because - true OR false - they were designed to be. We can all write offensive claptrap that we don't believe, but afw is not the place for it. Subscribe to something like alt.fan.schwartzenegger, or alt.flame.frogs and send your spoofs there, there's a good chap. let us know in advance and we might stand on the sidelines and cheer.

Remember you managed to offend people here a few times before with your "eversowitty" posts that weren't. When WILL you learn?

^ schwarzenegger

scnr,

M.

I see complete morons with lots of cash buying wine solely for its name value all the time in the wine shops. Opus One, etc.

Marketing-driven idiots...

Raym> Many a time I read that German wine labels are difficult to read and

Sorry, writing too fast, I have not opened Mt D yet. I was referring to a SB I tasted in Paris recently, from Te Mata, somehow now everything from New Zealand gets labelled St Helier... ;-)

The Mount D is reserved for a couple of wine friends, maybe this sunday.

Cheers Andrew

Politically, culturally, and in every other way, the F_____ are the most repulsive people on Earth.

Ian Hoare wrote:

Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,

le/on Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:25:04 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

Quite right, and it's even spelt that way in the news group. ATB Ian