Riedel "O" Glassware

Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,

le/on 17 Jun 2004 08:06:54 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

I HAVE to admit that one completely eluded me, dumbo that I am.

As you may have seen, StocksRus has in fact apologised to you. So perhaps not too much harm has been done.

A bota, tout court, yes, that was it.

M.

You know, there's a kind of leather that many people think is pretty good and only costs one-fifth of Napa Leather... they call it Modesto Leather...

;-)

Here as a reminder is pur rules of Netiquette, taken from our FAQ site: The entire FAQ site is

Section 2: Netiquette

A set of generally accepted guidelines for posting (netiquette) to Usenet newsgroups can be found in the FAQs in the news.newusers.questions and news.answers groups. It is a good idea to read these documents before posting to the group (or to any group, for that matter). Many of these documents can also be found on the Web:

The news.newusers.questions Official Home Page (available in English and German) is a good place to start. What is Usenet? Answers to Frequently Asked Questions About Usenet Rules for Posting to Usenet A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community Hints on Writing Style for Usenet

Flaming is discouraged on alt.food.wine. Flaming occurs when two people have differing views and one or both parties resort to insulting, ad hominem attacks, instead of rational discourse. While some newsgroup participants may end up taking sides, most users generally don't care about the conflict and would prefer not to have the mess invading the newsgroup.

Please note that disagreeing with someone's ideas or opinions does not constitute a flame. The group has witnessed many intense discussions (and disagreements) on topics such as point scoring systems, wine writers/magazines and cult wines. As long as participants remember to discuss the issues, and don't resort to insults or personal attacks, the argument will not deteriorate into a flame war.

The electronic medium has many limitations, one of which is that non-verbal cues are eliminated, so it is easy to misinterpret, and overreact to, a post. Please try to respect other participants and to give them the benefit of the doubt when posting. And it never hurts to re-read your own posts before hitting "send". If you feel yourself getting caught up in a flame war, try taking a deep breath and repeating "It's only Usenet, it's only Usenet,..."

Respect the person who is posting, even if they are a newbie, spammer, or just argumentative.

- Remember that everyone has to start learning about wine somewhere; if they don't know Zinfandel is red, don't make them slink away. And remember that there was probably a time in your life when you didn't know, either.

- Give the poster the benefit of the doubt. Make sure you read the original post and understand it before unloading your thermonuclear barbs and ripostes.

- Bashing someone's country, language skills, name, ethnicity or any other trait is counterproductive and is discouraged in this newsgroup.

- Friends and regular participants are more likely to recognize (or forgive) sarcasm or abrasive posts than new participants are.

Respect the readers of the group.

- Try using web resources before peppering the group with questions. For example, try using a search engine (e.g. Google) or two before asking for winery URLs, addresses or phone numbers.

- When replying to a post, try to delete most of the previous posts, leaving just enough to make some sense of the context of your remarks.

- When you get an answer(s), reply with a thank you. Many times, group members have gone to the trouble of looking at their wine books and notes to find an answer.

Misspellings, bad grammar, etc. should be tolerated, and should be politely corrected only if the mistake is important to the content of the message. Keep in mind that the newsgroup has a diverse membership, and English is not everyone's first language. Also, spelling and diction differ even among English-speaking countries, so tolerance is the best policy. Of course, it never hurts to check your spelling and grammar before posting!

Remember that the group has members from many countries.

- When asking a question about what wines are available, or places to buy or sell wine, you will receive more useful responses if you mention your approximate location (e.g. Wisconsin, USA or London, England).

- It is a good idea to list the units you are using whenever you post a number. For example, when posting wine prices, it is helpful to include the currency (e.g. US$, GBP, FRF, etc.). And when mentioning temperature, the scale is also important (C, F or K).

Do be funny (if you like), but don't make fun of the poster -- only the post. Section 3: Advertising and Spam

As stated in Section 1, alt.food.wine is a non-commercial discussion group. Advertising is NOT permitted.

There are legitimate ways to advertise a business on Usenet. Please see the Advertising on Usenet FAQ for suggestions.

One good way to advertise your business on alt.food.wine is to contribute to the discussion of the group (e.g. ask or answer a question, post a tasting note). At the bottom of every on-topic post, you may include a 4-line signature with business information. People will appreciate your contribution to the group and will be more likely to view your business favorably.

Absolutely! Alt.food.wine welcomes all people who are interested in wine. Although alt.food.wine is a noncommercial group, we have many contributors who are in the trade, and we value their knowledge and opinions. However, you should be careful to keep your contributions from becoming "stealth ads" for your business (group members are generally smart enough to notice). If you are commenting on a subject in which you have some financial interest (e.g. you are describing a wine which you import or distribute), it is a good idea to disclose your connection in your post.

As noted above, advertising is usually not permitted. However, in the past, the group has made exceptions for individuals (not businesses!) who are regular contributors to the group. If you are a contributor to the group and you keep your announcements to a minimum, you are not likely to receive many objections. Also, keep in mind that there are many other places that welcome such listings. Some examples include:

Wine Lovers Page Sales and Trading Forum Wine Commune Winebid.com Yahoo! Auctions

As mentioned in the Advertising on Usenet FAQ, on-topic business (including website) announcements are allowed. You may announce any wine-related website on the group. Non-wine-related website announcements are off-topic, and thus should not be posted to the group. Wine-related announcements should be limited to the launching of a website or a major addition to/subtraction from/redesign of the site, and they should ideally be informational, rather than promotional, in nature. A handy rule of thumb is that if you are posting an announcement more than once a month, you're probably posting too often, and you're likely to get on someone's nerves, even if your site is the best thing since the invention of bottled wine.

If someone asks a question that is answered on your website, it is appropriate to post a URL pointing to the information. However, in the spirit of contributing to discussion on the group, your post should also provide at least a brief answer to the question, while referring readers to your site for additional details.

Excessive Cross-Posting (ECP) and Excessive Multiple Posting (EMP) -- otherwise known as "Spam" -- are not appropriate on alt.food.wine. Most Internet Service Providers (ISP's) do not tolerate commercial spamming of non-commercial newsgroups and will terminate the abuser's accounts and/or impose financial penalties.

Users of alt.food.wine are encouraged to complain about spam and repeated advertising, but not on the group itself. Few advertisers actually stick around to read responses, so posting complaints just inconveniences other group members. In addition, many ISP's filter out spam, so people who never saw the original message, and would never have been bothered at all, will see your complaint. In addition, you shouldn't repost the ad to the group, since the result is just more free advertising.

If you think that an ad is an honest mistake, you can send a polite letter to the advertiser. However, some advertisers can become abusive when confronted, and some will just add your email address to a mailing list, which they can use (or sell) in the future. As a result, this course of action is not generally recommended.

Usually, the best course of action is to email to the postmaster at the originating ISP, the ISP used for responses (if different), and, if the ad promotes a website, at the webhosting company or ISP that gives the site its connection. Generally the appropriate address will be abuse@ or postmaster@ where "domain" is the name of the ISP. For example, if the sender is " snipped-for-privacy@xyz.com", you should try complaining to " snipped-for-privacy@xyz.com", and if the post advertises a site at "

In your email to the postmaster, you should include the entire offending post, with full headers (check your newsreader settings). Also include a short, polite message, specifying where you saw the post, and pointing out the existence of this FAQ.

For more information on how to respond to ads and spam, please see one of the many anti-spam websites, such as:

SpamCop Elsop's Anti-Spam Page If an ISP is unresponsive, and the advertising continues, you can post a complaint in the news.admin.net-abuse.usenet group.

Section 4: Miscellaneous Newsgroup Questions

in article snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Max Hauser at snipped-for-privacy@THIStdl.com wrote on 6/15/04 8:54 PM:

Most of my international exposure has been in Asia, so I have little basis upon which to know whether the word "Bullshit" has the same meaning/usage in Austria that it has in the US. The poster who used it (usually one of the pillars of this group, I believe) said it was an allusion to the bulls of Pamplona. Where I come from it would only allude to the red cape of the matador and produce the same result. That, I believe, is what happened here.

International dialogue is tricky enough. Even trickier when you can't see the other person.

Midlife wrote in news:BCFCE59D.4F20% snipped-for-privacy@cox.net:

I did take offence at the word "bullshit", but the humour alluded me and now that I GET it, it really is quite witty. I applaude the poster who wrote it. Sometimes it takes a bit of explanation for my feeble mind to comprehend a good joke.

It was me, and, no, the joke wasn't very good since nobody got it until I explained it. One never should try to attemp to make jokes in a language you're not completely familiar with.

M.