Sticker shock

Well, I guess I won't be buying any top tier growths. Hope this doesn't extend down the line. Looks like the Chinese are really skewing the market.

I recently received a spring catalog from Brown Derby that gave prices for several recent vintages of higher end Bordeaux wines. It seems elevated prices are here to stay. Yes increased demand from China and several other nations in Asia no doubt has something to do with high prices. In general rich persons in Asia are much more likely to be willing to pay very high prices for rare food and drink than are many Americans, for example. For example, if you are the CEO of a major Bank in Asia, you would not want to serve an important guest or client anything other than the "best", whatever that is. This attitude likely was responsible for Lafite being priced well above other first growths, and even average vintages of Lafite brought a very high price. Many Asian Lafite drinkers have moved on to other "best" wines, such as DRC Romanee-Conti and La Tache, and the prices of these wines have increased an extreme amount recently. Such wines were already very expensive because of very low production and huge demand.

Even in the US, demand for fine wines has greatly increase from when I was young. Then a Martini lunch was much more common than a fine wine lunch. You might have a cheap Chianti in an Italian restaurant. Of course there were some fine restaurants, often French, then that had large cellars of fine aged wines, but these mainly were in a few large cities.

I think the scariest thing is that it's so bad that $80/Gruaud and $90-$110/LeoBarton are being held up as reasonable! :) I paid $45 for highly ballyhooed 2003 Barton (04 same price)

And this is contributing to the high rate of counterfeit high end French wines in China and elsewhere in Asia.

Hmmm... I think that the estimated prices I saw were lower than those ($50-60 IIRC) but your point is still well taken. It is now the rare Grand Cru Classé that retails for less than three digits. As much as I love some of the Cru Bourgeois, it still pains me that so many of these wines are now out of reach for me and, by extension, with the vast majority of the wine drinking public. Oh, well.

Mark Lipton

This is EP release time, 2011s are coming out now, 2009s have been on actual market for roughly 2 years Lowest place that will actually have: Barton Now PC $89, last year PC $89, 2 years ago Barton not released* Gruaud Now PJs has for $63, but then big jump to $80 at PC, so I'd be interested if PJs will still confirm at that price. Last year JJB $63, 2 years ago PC $57.

I quit Bordeaux in 2005. Figured I could get more bang for my buck elsewhere and at age 60 I wasn't going to each maturity with my bottles anyway.

I'm with you here. Not buying any wines that need 20 years of age as I may never drink them.

I guess that's the wine geeks way of saying don't buy green bananas!

Not that I'm trying to dissuade either of you, but when I look at my CT data, I find that the _latest_ start date for a drinking window of any of the wines in my cellar is 2020 (for, of all things, a 2007 Stony Hills Chardonnay!). That means that all of the wines I now own will be drinkable (according to CT, which usually underestimates readiness to my tastes) before I turn 65 -- even my Dunn Howell Mountains! ;-) Unless one is buying old school Barolo or Madiran or First Growth Bordeaux (bringing this thread full circle) I don't see many wines that wouldn't be approachable at the very least in 5 years' time. Now, the bang for the buck argument I understand all too well.

Mark Lipton

Well 2020 is only pushing it a tad but the price points still are daunting. Can do better elsewhere even in France than these.

Hi Mark. Much of that was just tongue in cheek....you to will be over

Yeah, I figured as much, Bill, but just had to weigh in anyway. Clearly, the solution is for me to find my way out to Columbus to help you polish some of those wines lingering in your cellar! ;-) For the most part, I agree with you. More and more I am shying away from the "great" vintages in favor of the "leaner" years, for reasons of taste, pricing and life expectancy ;-)

Mark Lipton

Since I only have a 160 bottle cellar and no place to put more, I have to be very selective about what gets put away for long term. Given the investment needed for almost any classified growth and the fact that I just got my Medicare card, doesn't inspire me to buy Bordeaux or even Cali Cabs that require a whole lot of years to even be drinkable. I am just starting to drink my 90's Dunns and they are still tannic.

Well, we do have a major university here with a Chemistry department that has occasional seminars.