Wine labels

This could be a very difficult question to answer. Just because you find a bottle with very old wine and a label on it does not mean the label is old. Many atach labels just before shipping. Some cellars are so moist that labels will last only a short time in them, so this is the only practical way.

Some older fortified wines, such as vintage Madeira often were stenciled with paint. I have seen very old vintage Madeira with only a stencil. More often the bottle also has a newer label to meet legal requirements if it has been shipped in modern times. Again there is no way to be certain when the bottle was stenciled.

The oldest wine I have is a bottle of Constantia, either 1791 or 1809. In the old days wine often was stored in bins without labels, and in this case it was likely not certain in which of 2 bins the wine was stored. The bottle is of a non-standard size considerably smaller than a modern full bottle, and apparently hand blown. The top is sealed with green sealing wax. There is no indication that a label was ever present.

It was common practice to stencil the info on the eartherware/stoneware jugs and I suppose wood kegs and barrels before bottles came into use. I know the label as it is today came into use some time between 1790 and 1850 but I don't know what the oldest existing label is.

I have a very old bottle that was hand blown in Williamsburg around 1790. The opening in the neck is such that a modern cork will not fit it. I would guess that they used very tapered corks back then. With a closure of that sort, the wine was probably not expected to last for very long. The size is some where between a quart and a regular bottle.

Some early labels might have been filled in by hand, but printed labels likey were used very early. Many of the wines in the UK were imported in barrel and bottled by UK wine merchants until fairly recent times. The wine merchants most likely had a printing company print the labels. It is possible that some printing company in the UK would have sales records going back hundreds of years, or some wine merchants might have purchase records. Some companies in the UK seem to keep records forever. Thus a search of old wine merchant and printing company records might turn up something.

Hello members of this news group

I'm a labelcollector for over 30 years and the oldest dated paper winelabel I've ever seen is an 1832 St. Johannisberg (Germany) made as we called in lithography. I checked the lovely book of Cees Kingmans about the labels of the Grands Crus of the Médoc. No older one in that book. You'll find some old Champagnelabels in the nice book of Georges Renoy.

greetings

jenny

--------------------------------- Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor!!!

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Jenny, that is very interesting. It sounds a bit like collecting stamps or coins. (Or "sigilography," a word I know only from the Tintin books that I read as a child -- an old professor studied official seals...)

I have only saved a few wine labels as reminders of the wine. If there is a larger world of label collecting, if you can say anything more it, or post further references, I would be grateful. (Maybe others also.)

Best -- Max Hauser

-- "Yes, the Montressors were once a great and numerous family ..."

Hi Max

First of all I'm Dutch so please forgive me my mistakes in my postings.

Please don't share us between collectors of coins and stamps. Some of us do collect labels as if it are stamps, but most of us, first of all, is interested in the wine and the area and the progress of making wine etc. Fortunately labels are not for sale in shops and stores like stamps and coins. Ofcourse you can buy them on ebay and others and I admitt I do, but I don't like it. Most of us begin the way you do and the collection grows by getting things from friends, having a good relation with a fine restaurant etc. Of course now and then I write a lettre to a vineyard but for them labels are expensive and fraude is becomming more and more a problem, so they don't like to give so many labels, understandable. I'm realy proud to be able to say that in the last (over) 30 years I made my collection with vitamine R and F relations and friendship and a bit vitamine M: money ;-) and don't forget vitamine L, luck ;-) In Holland there is a club of collectors called Vinografia Nederland, in Belgium you have the BFO/FBO and in France you have about 10 clubs now. There are clubs in Germany, Switserland, Italy and Spain aswell.

I don't like to make publicity for my self but if you are interested

If you want to know more, please ask It's my hobby ;-)

greetings

Jenny

------------------------------------------------- Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor!!!

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"Jenny" in message news:c2c5cs$1raal2$ snipped-for-privacy@ID-109670.news.uni-berlin.de...

Thanks very much and I do not think I (or most people in the US) would be in any position to complain about anyone's English even if we wanted to. (Actually you can see non-native speakers in the US who have the language better than natives who are happy graduates of our public schools, and know more about US history too; I apologize, I should not get going about that.)

Jenny if you are from the Low Countries then you might possibly enjoy a small intense experience there that I described late Friday on the independent US wine Web site

I am not connected to that site, and my postings there have been sometimes incompletely serious.

Best -- Max Hauser

By the way, "Tintin" is known as "Kuifje" in your region if I remember right. (Re my first reply.)