Wine web sites - your help and opinions please?

Salut/Hi Petits vers d'O,

le/on Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:20:04 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

I like to read informative sites, with the minimum of self aggrandisement and a maximum of objectivity. If they're there to sell, then I expect the prices to represent honest value for money. I've seen sites practising 400% mark-ups, for example. If there ARE tasting notes then please let them be sensible, rather the wilder flights of fancy of "entertainers" who have to find ever more out of the way expressions to astonish. Food matches can be interesting too. I have a great preference for producers' sites.

For a french language web site (yes, I got the pun in your pen name, and adore Le Vin des Verdots made by David Fourtout, and also know the grape variety), if there IS a translation into English let it be flawless. Some mickey mouse translation made by a french webmaster who has been told by his doting mother that his english is "just wonderful" is a positive turn off (I should declare an interest as I translate french language web sites for wine makers). Something like 80% of them (english translations) are so bad as to make the web site a laughing stock.

I abominate flash. It adds a HUGE overhead to little advantage. I want a web site to give clear consistent link which all work, I don't want gimmick - sound, video, ands other bandwidth gobblers. I link at 45kbd and pay for all my on-line time, so keep the basic site small. No 2Mb pictures, no rotating links showing "next". HTML will link perfectly well.

I think there's some justification for using frames, as long as the overall structure is kept on an "outside" frame, with the individual pages being linkable via this frame. But in general, the simpler the navigation, the easier it is to get around. The great problem for the typical webmaster, is the temptation to stuff a web site with clever gimmicks to astonish the client, just because it's possible, rather than to facilitate use, minimise download time, or to clarify information. Avoid being clever, it doesn't impress me.

VERY exceptionally, I'll blow my own trumpet. My web site, designed to sell my B&B was written in HTML (not using dreamweaver etc) by me. I use neither Java, Javascript, nor Flash, have no sound and use no clever techniques. Yet over 70% of the guests who found my B&B via my website have commented in glowing terms on its excellence and the ease of navigation.

Excellent points, thanks Ian.

Of course as you have designed a site, your are disqualified :)

just kidding!

I was about to ask for wine-site suggestions also.

I used (or maintained or created) wine _newsgroups_ from the beginning (early 1980s). The WWW-format wine sites are much more recent and I'm still seeking interesting general ones. Some of them have an ahistorical tone, created "way back in 2001" or touching on events "waaaaaayy back in 1995;" some reflect implicit buy-in to one or another recent peculiar development (mailing-list cult wines, numerical critics, white Zinfandel, etc.). I'm looking for broader perspectives if possible.

I would appreciate suggestions of good general sites from knowledgeable people and I am *not* in the business of setting up these sites myself.

Max Hauser

"Petits vers d'O" in news: snipped-for-privacy@sneakemail.com...

Max, First off, thank you for bringing to my attention the existence of net.wines! Although I've been using the *net since the mid-'70s, I didn't discover Usenet newsgroups until fairly recently ('99). I wish that I'd found net.wines back in its day and got the ball rolling sooner.

As for your question, the wine-related websites that I've bookmarked (ignoring the retailers' sites that are specific to my area) are:

Yes, those are both interesting sites.

Interesting history, Max. Spaf of course is a respected colleague of mine here at Purdue, but has disavowed his early Usenet activities with the now-famous signoff about the herd of performing elephants.

But now, with the popularity of the binary newsgroups in the alt hierarchy, most news servers will carry some amount of alt.*. For instance, my news servers both at work and home carry this group. Still, as an alt.* newsgroup we certainly find ourselves in the Wild West of Usenet, but as you've no doubt observed behavior here is remarkably tolerant and helpful, with a minimum of the antics for which alt.* has rightfully achieved notoriety. [Totally OT: if you haven't seen Microsoft's "Social Accounting Search Engine" website:

Mark Lipton

Mark,

Obviously one's web surfing depends a lot on what wines you are interested in. Further, you may not need to know much more about Bordeaux or Burgundy (for example) if you've been drinking the best ones since the 70's. So with those exceptions, are there producers' or chateaux sites you particulary like or dislike?

Interesting, thanks!

I agree! Italian web-sites selling wine often have terrible english translations, and it sounds laughable, to be kind.

Vilco

While I too lament all those bogus web sites that begin "Welcome IN our website!"

I must remember that about 0.1% of English speakers (or is that too optimistic?) can write in a second language. In that respect, wine lovers would have a much higher number of course, possible as high as 5%.