You really are a bunch of Peckerheads

Mr. Buster:

One serious question, if I may distract you from your trolling for just a moment.

Do you hang in this newsgroup because you do enjoy wine, or did you just find it an easy target? If you DO enjoy wine, could/would you take just a moment and share any serious thoughts you had on wines you like?

If not, I apologize in advance for the interruption to your hobby. Thanks for your time.

My favorite at the moment is the 2001 Camus Cab. I also like Merlots, Sangiovasi, Syrah. There are some interesting people on this NG.

Feed 'em and they will stay.

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.

I asked the guy a serious wine related question, and he was nice enough to provide me with a serious reply. I have no issue with him. If I don't like his posts, I simply go on to the next one.

snipped-for-privacy@webwinerack.com

Mike Tommasi wrote:

I've been on the web for over 12 years now,amd trolls have always been here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" DOES make them go away!

Do not feed the trolls or join them in the killfile!

Myron

Myron:

Ignoring them doesn't make them "go away"... it makes them move on to the next newsgroup or forum, or simply change their handle making your "ignore list" useless.

I'll state again that I asked the guy an on-topic question, and received an on-topic reply. If you choose to add me to your kill file for that, then by all means, add me. How I deal with trolls in my web experience is my concern, and how you deal with them is yours. You choose to ignore them, I choose to overlook them. There is a difference.

Now... back to the topic of the forum, please.

snipped-for-privacy@webwinerack.com

Young Martle wrote:

See, it's just like I said Mike- there are Peckerheads here, they know who they are, but just can't help themselves.

These type of statements crack me up. Nobody really cares if you're adding them to your killfile or not, but people like you still love to threaten others (serious contributors to the group or not) with this so called "kiss of death".

Hello Mike,

No disrespect but you are wrong.

Public nuisance is normally a cry for attention.

No attention == boredom == going somewhere else.

Notice you have just provided more attention and a little thrill for our seemingly 12 year old friends.

Abusing other contributors, posting nonsence, ridiculing the subject etc all sounds like trolling behaviour to me.

And I have been on the web for at least as long as you. And I can say from experience what I have said is true.

Ignore it and eventually it will go away.

Mat.

Mat:

I understand your point, but I think you're missing one key element here. As with most trolls (if not all of them) this one more than likely is someone who frequents this NG as a normal user, as well. The guy isn't living his entire online presence as a childish troll. That's his online hobby. If he is a normal NG member he will not be going away. On the days the troll isn't here his real member presence will be.

Most trolls would find a wine discussion forum completely boring compared to more popular troll habitat like news media forums, where thousands of people post every week. Why is this guy hanging around a few dozen wine geeks when there are larger targets out there? Because, more likely than not, he is a wine geek too--or at least likes to read about wine. Could I be wrong, sure. but the fact that he gets one or two responses a week in this forum is *not* the reason he is hanging around, IMHO. It would simply be too boring for a normal troll. If what you say about public attention is true, why is he hanging here instead of a forum where he can get 100x the exposure?

This is the primary reason I asked the guy an on-topic wine question. I wasn't surprised by his answer. Instead of attacking me he provided an intelligent response that was on-topic. That tells me the guy is into wine, or at least has a bit of knowledge about the subject. At the very least he drinks the stuff.

I am not supporting what the guy says, or saying he has the right to say it. Again, I asked the guy an on-topic question (which no one else in this forum has done in any responses to him since I've been a member) and got an on-topic reply.

I don't want everyone upset at me, but if people want to kill-file me for on-topic posts I really don't mind. I'm only here to discuss wine and learn from you gents.

Oh, and don't worry about telling me I'm wrong... my wife does it all the time.

Thanks,

Mike

snipped-for-privacy@webwinerack.com

Mat wrote:

Hello Mike,

Perhaps I should rephrase that. If you ignore it [the trolling] it will stop.

The guy[s] could be Robert Parker, but that does not mean trolling should be encouraged or their prescence legitimised by replying to the occaisional post that is not pure crap.

If trolls were genuinely interested and wanted to contribute in a constructive way on a subject they enjoyed they would not troll. Particuarly when its not funny trolling, but malicious trolling. I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next person, but a lot of the latest batch of troll activity is purely malicious, and aimed specifically at a particular member at a time.

There is also the fact some of the current trolls in here have been exposed as trolling in other larger groups as well [just google some of the nicks]. So the argument about not just looking for attention you posited is not strictly true.

Plus of course a low-medium traffic group is much easier to manage than a large group. Where your trolling activities take up an awful lot of time to get the same little thrill.

So, I would encourage everyone to simply not reply. I don't killfile ppl because I'm old and ugly enough to usually restrain myself. And I wait with baited breath for something funny.

I'm not sure what my partner says to me. Something don't listen something, I'm not sure, I wasn't listening.

Mat.

Mat:

As I said in an earlier post--there are two different philosophies when dealing with trolls: ignore them, or overlook them.

I guess I should explain my take on it. Ignoring a troll, in my opinion, validates that you are irritated by their behavior. Overlooking them means that you acknowledge their existance, but make no reference to the ignorant portions of their posts. You simply are on higher moral ground and could care less what they say in a post.

When you burn energy maintaining kill files, sending off-topic replies, reporting them to Internet authorities, etc., they've basically won--they have successfully pulled you down to their level.

In any case, we'll agree to disagree on the subject as I don't want my rantings to continue to take the group off topic. My apologies to all for the waste of bandwidth. The next bottle of wine is on me.

Mike

snipped-for-privacy@webwinerack.com

Mat wrote:

Hello Mike,

I think you may find, as with all behaviour, from dogs to slightly higher beings, ignoring a behaviour is often a good technique to extinguishing that behaviour. Turning one's back indicates one's displeasure and disdain at another's behaviour.

Trolls aren't here to contribute. They're here to gain some thrill from disruptive behaviour. Otherwise by definition they would not be trolls.

You responding to them is only reinforcing these behaviours.

Which in turn means we all have to put up with them for even longer.

Don't you see? Even if you only respond to the small %ge of their post/s that is on topic, you are just legitimising the rest of their behaviour as well. Playing the prodigal son game, lets be nice until they start behaving is not going to work in this environment.

I've been through this in many a usenet group and other forums Mike. I also have minute knowledge in the reasoning behind it. Trust me, all you're doing is prolonging the behaviour.

So what you decide is up to you. But don't say I didn't tell you.

And given the extended coverage trolls *again* have gotten, no doubt there is some gratification going on as we speak. Which is the whole point.

And which this post is just perpetuating.

So that is all. Back OT.

Mat.

Hello Mike,

I was wondering how the website is going?

And whereabouts you are located.

And what wines you like. Particuarly any from Australia. But any old thing will do. :)

Mat.

Mat:

The site is going well. I've been a little slow at adding new content lately due to long hours at work and home (remodeling house to sell). Hopefully I'll get more content out there soon. I'm in Ohio, USA.

So far I've found Australian Shiraz to be one of my favorites. Yellow Tail and Lindemans are two that I like quite a bit. I've just added a bottle of Lindemans Bin 55 Shiraz Cabernet to the cellar. It's 2004, so I'm holding that back for a bit.

I've yet to try any of the more expensive Australian Shiraz, so I doubt I can offer any tasting experiences that a well-seasoned wine enthusiast would want to hear :0)

-Mike

snipped-for-privacy@webwinerack.com

Mat wrote:

Hello Mike,

Good to hear the site is going well. We seem to have a lot of ppl from Ohio in here.

I've had the yellow tail and the lindemans. The yellow tail was quite drinkable, though a touch sweet. The Lindemans shiraz I've always found quite bitter and rough with prominent alcohol. They both go for a song here, well under $10AU.

Blends I always find are a little more forgiving, so the shiraz cabernet will probably be a lot more drinkable. The Lindemans bin range are aimed at the drink now market, so I don't think I'd be cellaring it for too long. In fact my Australian wine book has them all [up to 2003] as "drink now".

I have some lindeman bins in the collection, which I should drink very soon if I get round to it. And some of the Cawarra range [bottom level lindemans] which I have generally found to be almost undrinkable. I believe the lindemans reserve range is quite ok.

I have no idea what range you have available to you in Ohio, so I can't really tell you what I would recommend. De Bortoli is quite reliable and probably available there. Um Rosemount is usually fairly quaffable if not particuarly exciting. Wolf Blass quite good. Brown Brothers. Peter Lehmann. Taylors. I'm just trying to name some producers that are big enough to be where you are.

I do however note that in many cases most of my tightarse Tuesday Australian wine posts get passed over. So if you want to know anything or whatever just ask and I will tell. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty low rent in comparison to a lot of posters in here, so I'm more than happy to help with stuff on the lower end of the Australian market. 68 Grange is not really something I drink everyday. ;)

There is a bit of a lack of posters around the bracket you are talking about. I guess the longer you are around the more expensive your taste gets.

As for well seasoned wine enthusiast, you would need to shove a kilo of sage, basil, sea salt, thyme, lemon zest etc etc in a given oriface for me to be well seasoned. I like posts about stuff I can go down the shop and buy without having to take out a personal loan. ;)

Mat.

Hi All, I've skipped over this entire thread because I thought it pertained to ornithologists who specialize in the study of woodpeckers, and I assumed the posts were directed to the wrong newsgroup. Did I miss anything? :-)

Dick R.