A first attempt...

Either is fine, both are good. If you are only making gallon batchs you could actually split the yeast packet among batches next time. They are good for 6 gallons. My 'general purpose' yeasts are Lalvin K1V1116 and EC1118 fo white. The Lalvin 71B is also a good one if you are working with less ripe fruit, it can eat some malic acid.

Both of the ones you are thinking of can take a gravity of 1.090 to dry if that is what you want.

Enjoy, the wine will take over from here, we say it makes itself around here...

Joe

A few comments:

I have made Jack's Niagara and it came out great. A fantastic wine. For a yeast I like either Lalvin 71B or D47.

I did try to make a wine with the White Grape and Raspberry and it stuck. I started it at 1.090 and it stuck at 1.030. Nothing I could do would get it started. I would be very interested in your results.

A comment about your recipe adoptions. Jack's recipe calls for 2 cans per gallon (5 liters) and that makes a very full bodied, well balanced white wine. You have increased it to 2.5 cans per 4 liters which is about 50% more ingredients. (20% less water and 25% more concentrate) Just realize that you have increased the grape by 50% so it is going to be a super full-bodied wine which is not necessarily good and you have increased the acid by 50% which may throw the balance off. I hope you cut the acid you added down to account for the extra concentrate.

Jack is not like the rest of us. He is a very meticulous experimenter and has developed a very well balanced recipe. By the way, don't feel like I am coming down on you. The first time I tried this recipe I had been making wine for 20 years and figured I new what I was doing. So I added 12 cans to a 5 gallon batch. That is 20% more juice than Jack called for. It came out with more body than it needed and would have been better with the called for

Ray

----$9.74

Wine making equipment (2 - 1 gallon jugs, Hydrometer, 2 air locks, 2 #6 bungs, acid blend, pectic enyme, yeast nutrient, 2 packages yeast,

---- $35.38

Making your first batch of wine in the comfort of your own home

---- Priceless

Hi all, just dropping a note to say thanks for all who participate in this forum, and for Jack Keller's wonderful site where I got the two recipe's I am using. I have been lurking and reading in here and on Jack's site for a while now and really appreciate all the good conversation here. I have decided to take the plunge, and am starting two batches

I am making the two batches based on Jack's WELCH'S WHITE GRAPE AND RASPBERRY WINE and WELCH'S WHITE GRAPE AND PEACH WINE. I have modified both slightly in that I am making it a bit more concentrated by using

Last night I mixed the two cans of white and peach concentrate to make a gallon, then topped up with some white grape and water to fill to

I mixed the second batch up tonight which was made the same way, except I used 2.5 cans of white grape/raspberry concentrate. I will let it sit tonight, and then add Lalvin RC 212 to it tomorrow night and set it inside the 10 gallon container along side the other batch. I do have a package of Red Star Pasteur Red, would this be better?

Anyway, just wanted to say hello, and explain what I did. Would appreciate any suggestions and I hope to keep updating this as things progress. If things go well, I will probably start two more batches when the first two are out of their primaries. A straight white wine from concentrate (niagra), and a staight grape juice from concentrate (concord).

Happy vino!

BBQ

Ray,

Thank you for your comments, and I certainly don't feel like your were talking down to me. Any suggestions or comments from anyone are greatly appreciated. First batch as I said, so preach on to the newb!

You mention the 2 cans per gallon saying it is 5 liters. From looking at Jack's site, I was under the impresion he was using 1 US gallon, and not an imperial gallon, so it would actually be approximately 3.79 liters. As I said I was using a 4.1 L container to mix the must. I actually looked again last night and the packaging says its' a 4.2 L container which I filled right to the very top. This means I am adding approcimately .4 L to Jack's recipe. I wanted to increase the juice concentrate because of this. I did not modify the acid content in any way. The second batch (white grape/rasberry) was mixed all together and did use exactly 2.5 cans of concentrate and enough sugar and water to bring it to the very top of the 4.2 L container and a sg of 1.09. This batch is still sitting as called for in the recipe, so maybe I will dilute it a bit more with water and sugar to bring down the concentrate levels before I add the yeast tonight.

Incedentally, I took a peak at the first batch this morning before I left for work. Looks like the must is bubling a bit, not a rolling boil, but nice bubbles comming to the surface. Houston, we have fermentation!

BBQ

You are exactly right. I was doing some tortured thinking without really thinking at all. There are 5 - 750 ml bottles in a US gallon. Not 5 liters in a gallon. So you are only about 25% over his suggested amount. I was

One comment on the Niagara. It is a wine that is good drunk young. I like it best between 3 and 6 months. By 9 to 12 months I think it is on the decline. I don't recommend it for long aging.

Ray

raspberries, 2 white grape and peaches, 1 white grape)

Do it the billb way, add yeast the first time and from then on just a little juice from the current batch will contain enough yeast to ferment the juice in the next batch.

#6 bungs, acid blend, pectic enyme, yeast nutrient, 2 packages yeast,

MAJOR waste of money. You can ferment the stuff in the 64 oz. bottles you buy it in and toss them out when you are done with them. (Save the sludge to bake bread with) You can make an airlock with the cap and some aquarium tubing and cement.

Once you realize you can get drunk for pennies, you will also realize how you've been "had" by the commercial booze sellers all these years.

Hey billb, thanks for the reply!

Nice idea on the reuse of the yeast, if I start a batch imediately after, I might try using the sludge to start it!

I can't do the fermentation in the bottle it came in because I got the frozen concentrate that comes in a little 11.5 oz container. Interesting idea on making your own air lock, do you have a better description? Although, the locks I bought were I think $1.50 a piece, and I am not sure how much the cement you are talking about costs? Is th cement you mention some sort of silicon for cealing aquariums?

Anyway, I don't consider it a waste of money, because I can reuse all of the stuff I bought for my next batch..and so on...and so on. I guess I would eventually have to buy some supplies over however like the acid blend and such.

Can you elaborate on the method you use? Do you do the whole process in the same bottle? Add any sugar? How long does it take, and what is the final product like?

I am looking for something decent as a finished product with a good taste, and nice clarity because I want to share it with my friends and family, so this extra expense is worth it to me. Still, if you can get the same thing for a fraction of the cost, I am all ears!

BBQ

Thanks for your reply Joe,

I ended up using the R212 for the white grape/rasberry batch. I also ended up adding .3L of plain tap water to the batch. I did a hydrometer reading while the yeast was being activated (again added the package to 2oz of warm water) and got an SG reading of appprox 1.095 or so. I decided with Ray's suggestion the stuff might be a bit potent, and the with the sg above 1.09 to go ahead an water it down a bit to bring it more in line with Jack's recipe.

The first batch (white grape/ peach) is bubling happily. I went ahead and stired it up a bit tonight and it ended up having a nice 2 inch foam on top that receaded back down after a while.

Im looking forward to helping the wine make itself. I especially will love helping it from the glass to the palate. I know that will be a while yet however.

BBQ

I'm going to start a 1 gal batch of the white grape peach today so I'll be watching this thread closely.... it's my first batch.

What is the reason for waiting 12 hours before adding the yeast? I'm using the same recipe (but am not changing any amounts). From making bread I can see activating the yeast before adding it but I don't understand waiting the day before adding it. What's the deal?

John F

I think that if you added something to kill of unwanted bacteria and yeasts at the beginning, that if you add yeast right away, it would die, too. The

Beege

Beege, Here is how sulfur dioxide works. Most winemakers add an initial dose of 30 to 50 ppm of sulfur dioxide when grapes are crushed to help control native yeast. Contrary to much home winemaking literature, sulfur dioxide added at crush does not kill native yeast, but it does greatly diminish their activity for several hours. Commercial wine yeast has considerable tolerance to sulfur dioxide and remains active in the presence of normal amounts of sulfur dioxide. When commercial yeast is added to juice containing reasonable amounts of SO2, a large population of the added yeast quickly develops while the native yeast is inactive. The commercial yeast then dominates the fermentation, and this is why all wine yeast manufacturers recommend adding yeast immediately after sulfur dioxide additions.

Lum Del Mar, California, USA

I believe the wait is to give the Pectic Enzyme time to work it's magic

Later, A.J.

Here is an update for my two batches.

I actually returned from a short camping outing with my son and his grandpa and so did not even look at the stuff yesterday (saturday). We went to Enchanted Rock State Natural Area here in Texas. What a great trip it was. My son is about 3 years 3 months, and was able to make it to the top with little issue. I did carry him down however. Highly recommended to anyone. The only minor complaint I have is that the Texas heat seems to finally be upon us. Boy it was hot on saturday. Thankfully it did cool off at night, and we climbed the rock early sunday when it was still fairly cool. Anyway, on to the update

Day 3 (since yeast added) for batch one (White Grape/ Peach) - I checked on the two batches when I got home on Sunday at around 12 noon. This batch did not have much going on. Just a few patches of bubbles on top. I stirred the batch and it did foam up quite a bit. Tonight at about 9pm I checked it again, and there were just a few bubble patches on top. So, I decided to take an SG reading with my hydrometer. Now, this thing is not all that acurate, but it looks to me like this batch is sitting at .09 - .092. So, looks like this stuff is done for the most part. Man, that was fast at only 3 days. I will say that I have this stuff in an upstairs closet, and it is in a room that has a couple computers, so it gets a bit warm in here. I will have to get a themometer to get a real reading, although I would get suprised if it got over 80 up here. Since I got that reading, I decided to transfer into my 1 gallon secondary.

The wine itself is still very cloudy. I went ahead and took a sip after racking into the jug, and it taste dry to me. And I can definately tell there is alcohol. O, lets hope the taste inproves as well. :)

A few things to note.

-I am glad I used a primary that is about 4.2 liters, because I barely had enough to fill the entire 1 gallon jug up to 1.5 inches under the bung. If I had used Jack's recipe to a T, I would have had to find something to top off with.

-It should be interesting when I have to rack for real. I wasn't to conserned this time, but I swished the contents pretty good by messing up the start of the syphon. I also backwashed as I attempted to stop the syphon. If this had been a real rack with some clear wine, I would have clouded it up good.

Day 2 (since yeast added) Batch 2 (white grape/ rasberry) - This stuff is still hapily foaming away. I gave it a stir today, and it foamed up nicely. Wouldn't be suprised if I rack this stuff to the secondary tomorrow, I will give it an SG reading if it isn't doing much.

BBQ

Update on Batch 2 (white grape/ rasberry)

I took an SG tonight and it read around .094, so I decided to rack into my secondary. I did much better on racking this time. Got the siphon started on the second try, and there was no backwash during the process. Couple more tries and I should have it down. Both batches are now sitting in a down stairs closet, with a temp that should hover around 72-75 degrees F. I took a sip of the wine after racking. It almost tasted like a rasberry wine cooler. I didn't stir before racking, so I think there is quite a bit of disolved CO2 in there. It tastes a bit sweeter than the first batch (white grape/ peach). The second batch tastes much better than the first. Well, I won't be messing with the secondaries for another 30 days or so. I will update with anything interesting before then however.

As always, suggestions or comments are welcome.

BBQ

What color is your White grape peach?

Mine is a yellow - orange.....it's really strange looking at this point.

John F

Hey John,

Well, my white grape/ peach is more a yellow color. Really like a cloudy light beer. I don't really see any orange in it.

BBQ

Hello, Having made a fair number of batches of wine this way, I can tell you that the alcohol taste will be strong in the beginning, but as time goes by that will diminish and then you will be able to know what your wine truly tastes like. Your wine will also clear up over time as well as more sediment drops to the bottom. Good-luck and welcome. Darlene Wisconsin

How is your wine doing BBQ?

Mine is clearing a lot and looks about like apple juice at this point.

I tasted it (transferring off the sediment) and right now it's mainly a hint of wine, a solid kick of alcohol, and a truckload of yeast.

I can't wait to see how it turns out when it's actually done.

John F

tripking,

First thanks for the question, and keep me updated on your progress as well.

The first batch (white grape/peach) is looking pretty much the same as you describe. Looks pretty clear with a layer of lees on the bottom. It is still bubbling, although very slowy. Just a few tiny bubbles hitting the surface every couple of seconds.

The second batch (white grape/ rasberry) is harder to tell as it is a dark red. It does seem pretty clear when held up to a light. This one is bubbling a bit more. Larger bubbles, with more hitting the top per second.

I havn't had a taste since I racked it to the 1 gallon jugs. I will let them sit in the 1 gallon jugs for another few weeks, and then figure out what to do. I have a delima in that I only have gallon jugs, and if I transfer I will have to top up with something.

I have seen a few wines sold in 3 liter bottles, so I may have to get a few of them so I can rack down. I am almost finished with a 4 liter bottle of Carlo Rossi Chablis. Once this is done, I will begin fermentation on another batch. I am hoping I can go from fermenter -->

Incedentally, the wife and I have recently partaken of a few bottles of Riesling. Anyone know how we could use some sort of welches concentrate concoction to get a close approximation of this type of wine? I must say it is really good!. I like the fruity flavor, and the sweetness. The wife likes it better than the pinot grigio she has sworn by for years. Mmm mmm good.

BBQ

Splurge, and buy yourself one of the "4 week" Riesling kits. For a similar style, with a little more sweetness, try a Piesporter. The white kits (IMHO) turn out pretty well, considering how inexpensive they are. Around $1.50/bottle for the ones I buy. You can make drinkable wine using grape concentrate from the grocery store, but I doubt you're going to come very close to the taste of a Riesling using those kinds of ingredients. If you're determined to do it the hard way, you could try adding some dried elderflowers to the initial fermentation - they are typically used to impart some floral notes to the Piesporter kits.

Doug