Advise for Vineyard Establishment

This is TOTAL nonesense and anyone following this thread realizes that you are NOT contributing ANYTHING useful.

IF you are happy doing what you are doing, that is fine;

BUT:

to state to OTHERS that professional wine growers are not living in the real world, that nurseries are motivated by money only, that the French do not know anything about grape growing, that self rooted is the only way to go, that fermenting in NON FDA APPROVED containers is just fine, that mulch is the way to go for everyone, and that you alone have the secret to success and all others are motived by money is pure nonesense.

PLEASE, continue to do what makes you happy B U T realize that you are expressing an OPINION based on YOUR experience in a LIMITED environment in what you perceive as being the WHOLE world of viticulture.

On the other hand I encourage the following:

I encourage all who may read this thread and are interested in growing wine grapes to do the following:

Research the availabel literature

Contact the Agriculture Extension agent in the area they live

Contact PROFESSIONAL growers in their area to obtain information as to varieties and how to grow these varieties.

Join a growers association in their area, especially those that have educational seminars.

If you wish to engage in arguementation, please spend your time in other groups who relish this sort of thing, ie, computer languages or programming or religion,etc.

Nope, even your preferred expert, Lon Romboubough does not mention wood chip mulch. He does mention (page 63) a study done by Cornell University which showed LOWERED brix levels using mulch. There goes your two brix increase theory - shot down by your own expert.

Not hardly, although laterals can contribute they can also be detrimental in an overly vigorous vineyard and promote poor air circulation and hence disease. The OP was referencing his overly vigorous vineyard.

I remember saying that bees are attracted to damaged fruit such as bird pecks or other predators. Do you disagree with this?

Not all Rubbermaid Brute trash cans are food grade or suitable for fermenting wine.

This was information I received FROM THE MANUFACTURER and was about a particular Rubbermaid Trash can(s) that I was considering buying.

If you want to take the risk and poisin yourself, be my guest. For all others, I suggest you call the manufacturer and ask specifically if the particular Brute Trash can you are considering buying is suitable for fermenting wine. There are other safer options available.

Lon Rombough is not against root stock. I suggest you read pages 169-73 There are certain rootstocks that make certain varieties MORE winter hardy. In addition you can read the other benefits of rootstock if you bother to read your source. His only criticism to rootstock vines is their compartively higher cost than self rooted. This increased cost can be recouped from other benefits.

He even includes a list of books on rootstocks in the Bibliography. If you reference an "expert" it would serve you well to actually read what the "expert" says.

I think Jay has a lot more on the ball and knows how to research the facts and not listen to self proclaimed experts like yourself.

Just to prove that I am not against every thing you say; I agree with 90% of what you just posted.

The things I would add is that certain varieties like Chambourcin are, in my opinion best planted (in my area) with root stock. The variety, self rooted does not seem to have roots that go deep enough for water in times of draught. At least this is my experience and that of others in the area. - perhaps I should mulch this one row :-)

If I had room, I would plant the following hybrids which are well suited to the area in which I live; Chardonnel, Traminette, Seyval Blanc.

I dislike high wire. The reason I don't like it (and I do have three rows of 25 vines each in it) are that it is very difficult to net. If birds are a problem in your area, this is a big consideration.

The vines I do have on high wire are Chambourcin because of its eratic growing behavior it is easier just to let them flop over from a high wire cordon. I also have a row of Norton which also favors downward growth of shoots. I have one row of Chardonnay that I am going to convert to VSP because of the bird issue and the fact that Chardonnay loves to grow vertical and is a relatively easy grape to trellis.

I agree with doublesb on the Pinot Noir issue and also the row width issue as well as his statement that it is going to take you a lot longer than you think to maintain.

I have two vineyards. One is in my back yard and consist of 110 vines of about equal numbers of Merlot, Cabernet Franc and Cabernet Sauvignon.

I recently inherited a friends quarter acre vineyard (175 vines) out in the country because he had to move to town because of health reasons. The new owners did not want to maintain the vineyard, did not want wine, they just wanted someone to maintain the vineyard and make it look nice (works for me)

Out there (Pleasant Valley, MD) I am growing Nebiollo (don't like growing this grape even though it is my first year of managing this vineyard - low producer and late ripening); Chardonnay (75 vines) I like growing this variety because it grows upright and is a charm to grow, one row of Voigner (seems to be doing ok) one row of Norton, also known as Cynthiana (hate this grape - requires high wire and fruit ripens VERY late and has small clusters with high pH and high TA) and one row of self rooted Chambourcin. Chambourcin is sulphur sensitive so you can not use it on Chambourcin OR Norton.

All together I have about 285 vines. If I were not retired, I would have a VERY difficult time maintaining this many vines.

Harvest time is here and I am fatigued with harvesting. The Chardonnay produces a LOT of grapes (going to have to correct this next year)

Paul

Ummmm..... no. A reason to mulch. Not a reason to mulch _with wood chips_. Or perhaps you were unaware that other materials, which do not rot or support the growth of fungus, can be used as mulch?

It is a 175 foot length of row. That is a LOT of wood chips.

Right now, this vineyard is not cultivated. It has grass in the isles and under the vines. It is not showing draught stress. We have had PLENTY of water this year.

I screwed up by spraying a small amount of sulphur in my spray mix and the temps were not hot when I sprayed it but the leaf margins on the Chambourcin are definately showing scorch. The Chambourcin also has what appears to be Rupestris speckle OR, as one grower says it may be Ozone damage. Chambourcin is suppose to be an indicator of Ozone.

I made a Seyval Blanc last year that got rave reviews. I think it has the potential to being a good blending grape. It is a prolific producer and can be cropped quite heavily without affecting quality.

I also love Traminnette. I don't grow (no room left) any but I have a source a few miles from me over in Northern Virginia. He gives me commercial rates for the grapes since I used to work for a commercial grower.

The grower said "Do not cold soak because It can make the wine bitter" but this has not been my experience. Two years ago I cold soaked overnight and the wine was terrific. Last year, I did not cold soak overnight and the aromatics were almost absent. Needless to say, I cold soaked this year and I can already tell that the aromatics are there in full force.

I also cold soaked overnight my Chardonnay and Voigner. Mainly it was because of a logistics problem but I think it is going to be good. I have some Chardonnay left to harvest so I am going to do the unmentionable and experiment by actually fermenting it on the skins. I am going to harvest Thursday and I know the pH and TA are going to be outside the range for a typical "White" so it is worth an experiment.

I may try it also this coming season.

Jason,

Vinifera needs to be on rootstock. Period. It is not impossible that you might see freeze damage at some point, but you will without question eventually see phyloxerra to some degree. Freeze damage to graft unions is usually manifested by crown gall infections. You probably don't have the bacteria that causes it in your area. Phyloxerra don't thrive in very sandy soil, but they are all over the country. Even if you avoided a heavy infection that killed your vines quickly, they will eventually cause enough damage to shorten the life of your plants. If you grow hybrids, you might be OK own rooted, although nematodes are also an issue. The guy at Hollywood Hills Vineyards knows more about Regent than anybody in the country, particularly in that area. Listen to him regarding Regent (and Pinot Noir).

Do be particular on the source of your rootstock. A few years ago, there was a lot of rootstock sold that was infected with "black goo", which could be the cause of the dead Chardonnay that was mentioned.

Make sure you carefully consider if 3 x 6 spacing is truly what you want. Maybe that is what you have to do to get the number of vines you want on your available land, but it is tight. Your effective clearance between rows will end up being around 4 feet, and that is if you keep everything trained really well. I heard a talk by a vineyard consultant who is currently recommending 4 x 7 spacing with double trunks and single cane pruned (per trunk). The short canes were used because cordons were considered a repository for disease organisms.

Good Luck,

Stephen