Advise for Vineyard Establishment

No, Red Traminer is not the same.

As I said before, Growing Degree Days is a guide but days of sunshine and amount of sunshine are equally as important. For example, we almost always get the Growing Degree Days for Cabernet Sauvignon where I live, but it does not always rippen fully even though the Growing Degree Days are there. The reason, lack of sunshine for some years.

You said that your summers are sunny and dry so perhaps you can take that into consideration if you want to "push the envelope" on varieties to consider.

Here in Northern Virginia and Central Maryland, The following harvest days (give or take a few days on either side, of course) are, Pinot Gris usually harvested around September 7th, Traminette is usually harvested around September 20 and Chardonnay around September 25th.

So, it would seem that if Pinot Gris is a recommended variety and Chardonnay is on the extreme end of your possible growing season, that Traminette being in the middle, might very well fit it.

This is just something to consider. It sounds like you have plenty of room and Traminette can be grown self rooted, has beautiful clusters, produces ideal chemistries for wine production. It is one of the easiest wines I make; simply pick, crush, press and ferment; no additions of anything needed.

Paul, We were writing at the same time so I missed your comment, I appreciate the recommendation and definately will consider it, I might see what I can ripen, steve at hollywood hills thinks Pinot Gris might be borderline for 1900 so I might try it first, but if it is as great as you say it is I might have to look into it....I think I might have to drink some white wine before I start growing and making it...to see what I like.

We have long days of light in the summers its light at 10:00 at night at my old house in Dupont.... so that may be why recommendations for WA viticulture are often done by temp it might be more of a limiting factor

A general comment for the group, for those who have been a great help work out the kinks of this adventure thank you,

though I am not a viticulturist I think that a viticulturist must also think of contibuting to his AVA'S identity culture and consistency , the Puget Sound already is struggleing to develop its identity and growing "anything that will grow" in a haphazard random way is in a way selfish, in order for the AVA to be taken seriously it needs to be known for certain great wines and I wish to contrubute to that identity by celebrating its heritage, Sieggerrebe has a 25 year history in the Puget Sound and is part of what Identity it has....it is grown widely here, has an established viticulture for the AVA and makes great white wine(not that I am a judge) it sells locally and is known regionally.... for home wine use alone I would just plant some hybrid reds like Regent Rondo and Foch (which I am doing anyway) and call it done but the goal here is to do a little more in whatever small way I can and as Ted has said I got to sell some if I want to make wine by the barrel.

In my humble inexperienced amature opinion I do think that some hybrid wines need to be established in the consumer pallete, wines that can be grown sustainably and more inexpensively and make great wine...and it has begun in the Puget Sound already I have commercial Regent waiting for me at home...I think there IS a market for locally made organically grown wine...just needs to be marketed right...and of course the wine has to be good....and probably sold next to something consumers know and like....

but then again all this is easy for me to say sitting here and not in the trenches yet Jason

Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right? Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like it does a hybrid like regent....the next question is can I find it in WA..

Paul, looking back at the link you posted...its a hybrid right? Hmmm...I wish I new if it would ripen...maybe I should try a few selfrooted vines...and maybe 3309 would kick it in a week earlier like it does a hybrid like regent and then it can hang outin the october fog for longer as a resistant hybrid?....the next question is can I find it in WA..

well I checked cloudmountain farms and inland desert nursery they dont have it, cloud mountain might be able to get it if I call, when do the nurseries "calm down" I don't want to be bothering them about orders for next year when they are trying to keep up with current ones.

by the way I checked out the Holywood Hills websight and they completely sold out their first Regent vintage in only a few months after it came out and its a german hybrid with a funny name!!! there is hope in the world!

I also found that he is ripening Chardonnay which ripens later and is less disease reisistant then Traminette ...I wonder how I could get some.

Yes, it is a hybrid.

I know they grow in a far north as Pennsylvania and I believe New York State also where it was developed at Cornell University.

I don't know what the Washington state laws would be for importing it from out of state.

I checked out one nursery supplying Traminette and they stated they could not ship to Washington State. There may be other sources though.

At least from this thread, I have learned a little about Regent. IF only I had more room to plant, I might try this variety here in Maryland. I don't think anyone is growing it out here.

Yeah, I called it a hybrid, but this and Rondo are actually considered vinifera since the germans breed out the cross to 1/8th

Yeah, I called it a hybrid, but this and Rondo are actually considered vinifera since the germans bred out the cross to 1/8th ...check out Rondo as well another German "hybrid" half St Laurent which is thought to be a Pinot sprout.

Here is some info on Regent:

It is half Chambourcin. Reports from the diverse locations of Texas and New Hampshire both note it as even more disease resistant than Chambourcin. Initial indications are that the wine is best in cooler climates than Texas, but the data is limited.