Advise for Vineyard Establishment

Gewürztraminer has a personality disorder. If you make it dry you upset those who expect to be sweet. If you make it sweet you lose those who like a dry white. Labeling does not seem to work. They look at the G and don't do past that point.

With Pinot Gris you can even use Grigio. You choose the wine making style and sweetness level you prefer, opt for Gris if dry, Grigio if sweeter, and say on the label what the buyer can expect and no broken hearts.

I still argue against the flat forehead school of wine growing. If if grows well in the region, is a wine name recognized by your market, and will fully ripen, go with the known.

If you do not prefer white wine, are you making it for yourself? If not for you, then? Life in the winery and vineyard can have enough complications without feeling like you are swimming up stream.

ted

Ted " I still argue against the flat forehead school of wine growing.  If if grows well in the region, is a wine name recognized by your market, and will fully ripen, go with the known"

thats what the commercial growers and wine makers from the AVA are telling me...experiment if you want but "why"? and that also brings in the discussion of how many different grapes are grown in the region without establishing a market for a few that the AVA can become known for.

"If you do not prefer white wine, are you making it for yourself? If not for you, then? Life in the winery and vineyard can have enough complications without feeling like you are swimming up stream"

Yeah the white wine is just to be prepared for the future...if I am successful at growing and making wine and want to bond a small winery ....a tasting room with just Pinot Noir in it might stay kinda empty, it would be nice to have a couple whites for those that like them...so I could have a Pinot, a Regent, and a blended red, and a white or two..though I think I would have a much higher ability to get some people to hang out and try some wine and sit in the vineyard with a little selection....maybe go with one recognized white and try Traminette...of course I am thinking ten years down the road, first I got to grow it and learn to make it well, I figure thats about five years just to figure which end the grapes come out of....

Jason

Another FNG question, I ordered my grapes a few months ago from the only nursery in the area that has the cool climate grapes I need and does commercial size orders. They sent an automated response with me order number about two weeks after the order. After a few emails I called, which is not an easy task from sulu island...jungle canopy and mountains are not great for anykind of reception short of Sat. I asked about the order and if they wanted a deposit...they said it was really early for an order ( even though the websight says get your 2010 orders in) but they would get back to me they haven't....my question is when should I start pestering them to adjust the grape varietals and give them a deposit? Jason

sorry, but this is sop, start pestering last week.

the known is for the commercial side. the "other" is for the passion.

I love Carmenere, Petite Verdot, Malbec, and Tannat. I make wine with them for me. I am VERY good at making Merlot, but I love a red blend with Cab Sauv, blended with Merlot and Malbec.

Yet, I am sipping a glass of Chardonnay I made. Pretty darn good for a Chardonnay. crisp, clean, citrusy, wit enough flavor to have body and a finish. but, no oak, smoke, butter, vanilla, just the concentrated flavors from the grape. my pinot gris sold out in 6 weeks. we don't grow or make it here according to the experts, but the pinot noir i made? wish i had more. did not save enough to my personal cellar. but, can ship you several "extra" cases of wine I made in my early years. care for a case of cab franc made from grapes with green seeds?

in other words, there are wines i make for those willing to share their spending money with me. and there are wines i make for me.

you have to weigh the cost of these decisions for yourself.

grow the the wines you can sell for the winery grow the wines you want to drink for yourself

everything else is chatter

ted

Ted , thanks for the advise I'll decline on the green seeds though....

ok, so I started looking up a bit about Pinto Gris since I am now considering it as one of the whites I want to grow, and it fits in well with all the other Pinot types and Burgundian stuffs I am already considering, NOW in my research I have found references to blending Pinot Gris into Pinot Noir IOT to contribute complexity and lighten the color! really? do they just add a little juice skins and Pomace to the must? or are we blending finished wines...are we talking white wine here? WTF are they talking about?

ok, so I started looking up a bit about Pino Gris since I am now considering it as one of the whites I want to grow, and it fits in well with all the other Pinot types and Burgundians stuffs I am already considerings, NOW in my research I have found references to blending Pinot Gris into Pinot Noir IOT to contribute complexity and lighten the color! really? do they just add a little juice skins and Pomace to the must? or are we blending finished wines...are we talking white wine here? WTF are they talking about?

I have no idea but I do know that if you allow Pinot Gris even a little skin contact time after crushing you will end up with "Pink Pinot". Been there and done that - not on purpose, of course. I think there is one winery, I think it is in BC of Canada, that does this on purpose.

not familiar with this practice, except in the rhone region. co-fermentation of a small amount of viognier with syrah can make the finished wine Darker. yes, this is totally counter intuitive. but it produces a darker, richer rhone wine. does it also work with burgundian grapes. sorry no personal experience.

does it cross over to pinot? don't know

I will ask my friends who live in the pinot world and get back to you .

ted

as you should. green twigs and bell peppers are not the flavor descriptors i look for in red wines!

I dont' know about modern wine making or New world wine making but the Oxford Companion to Wine says it has been part of classic burgundies, back when they used field blends... Wine Pros says "The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness, but will begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe. Sometimes it is used to add richness and to lighten, when blended with Pinot Noir"

so they seem to be saying that it has been used to lighten Burgundy...which of course is not quite "in" style but interesting non the less.

attaining sugar levels while maintaining a balance between acids and pH are the tune for the dance we do at harvest. "The variety can attain a very high level of sweetness, but will begin to lose acid rapidly when near to fully ripe." could be used to describe most grapes. and, winemakers who pick by the numbers ignoring flavors and ripeness pay the price in the wine. field blends are not my preference. i choose to make the wines, then blend. key words being i choose. keep your tap shoes polished

ted

Ted, understood wilco to the best of my ability....it will take some field time I am sure to be able to "taste" when the grapes are mature and not just that the brix and acid are "correct"..that and brown seeds.. I just found it interesting that anyone would blend a "white wine" into a red wine. and tap shoe polish...know where i can get some of that?

I did find out that most Traminette ripens in areas with about 2600 GDD in mid oct, so I might not be getting anymore than a couple of cuttings to see if it ripens at all. ted how close are you to Yelm anyway?

jay

Ted, understood wilco to the best of my ability....it will take some field time I am sure to be able to "taste" when the grapes are mature and not just that the brix and acid are "correct"..that and brown seeds.. I just found it interesting that anyone would blend a "white wine" into a red wine. and tap shoe polish...know where i can get some of that?

I did find out that most Traminette ripens in areas with about 2600 GDD in mid oct, so I might not be getting anymore than a couple of cuttings to see if it ripens at all. ted how close are you to Yelm anyway?

jay

Green Creek Winery in Western NC makes a red chardonnay that is very popular.They add Chamborcin pulp to the chard after pressing the Chamborcin. It's a rose' color and quite tasty. Steve