Alum Utensils

Why take the chance? Use plastic or stainless steel.

-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

There is no reason to if you have the plastic or wood like the other poster said but I know in brewing it is a constant debate and after 50 replies there are usually 50 theories and no definitive answer. Simply stirring a wine I don't see how but it is true that if you just use a plastic stirrer it avoids the whole issue. If you don't have a plastic stirrer, just use the alum one which I have done when I first started and realized half way through I hadn't anything to stir with. It didn't turn purple or poison me so I would say it's better than not stirring at all. Jason

Wine is acidic and you should avoid aluminum in an acidic environment. That said, stirring is not a lot of contact time. I would not use it, but that's me. Joe

I doubt that you'd be able to measure or taste the influence of an aluminum stirrer in your wine. Aluminum forms a passive layer very quickly when exposed to air. That prevents it from corroding unless there is a lot of ambient chloride ion present. Wine is very low in chloride, so I wouldn't expect it to be a problem.

Commercial wineries ship bulk wine and juice in aluminum tanker trucks all the time. It doesn't seem to be an issue for them - at least not for such short term contact.

Tom S

Eddie, I am ignorant about the danger of a little copper in wine. Please enlighten me. Regards, lum

just to let you know: on ebay, someone is selling either some seperate stainless steel cooking pots.. or some cooking pots by the set of 4 (8 quart/2 gallons, 12, 16 quart, and

20 quart/5 gallon.) This wo8uld be good for home brewing, wine stirring, or even, as I've been thinking about, cheese making!!! here's the link: I have nothing invested in selling these...so please dont see this as spam or anything else....they just interest me personally, that's all. , or:

I will be bidding on one of these "auctions" very soon... hope you find this interesting as well. Rick Fremont, MI

Hi Lum, As you know very well, copper can be a source of haze if the content gets to high. Many aluminium alloys contain copper. The aluminums covers it's self very quickly with a oxide layer but the copper in the crystal latish is not often oxidized (the reason for using the copper in aircraft alloys). This may allow the copper ion to go into solution in wine. This may increase the copper content of the wine. I know this maybe a little far fetched, but many aluminium alloys used in pots have 25 to 30 % copper in the alloy. Die cast aluminums alloys are mostly of the 6000 or 6300 series of alloys containing 5 to 30% copper. In other words, many aluminums utensils contain significant quantities of copper. This could add to the very small amount of copper in the must. The point is that the aluminum addition to wine is minimal but the addition of copper may be more significant. Containing the wine in a vessel made of 2/3 aluminums and 1/3 copper or using utensils of this alloy does not increase the aluminums content; but does it increase the copper content significantly? This is the basis of my comment/question, Have a good day, Eddie V.

Yes indeed, more than 1 ppm or so of copper can cause serious haze problems. But, I had no idea such levels could occur from a short contact with aluminum. Thanks for the info Eddie. lum

Here's a "first-timer's gee, I didn't know" story - I did this before I ever read a wine-making book or checked out the wine sites. My first 1 gallon batch of rhubarb wine was fermentated in an aluminum cooking pot, which I generally used to make homemade pickles in. I will never do THAT again, and here's why. After racking the wine to a glass secondary, I noticed the pot was extra clean and shiny where the wine had been fermenting. I don't know what came off the pot and ended up in my wine, but it always bothered me, so I never used that particular pot again in winemaking and I will not use anything aluminum. Having said that, the wine seemed to be fine for a first batch, not cloudy or such, and no vinegar aftertaste. I have one bottle left from that first batch still aging in my basement. Darlene

Dar, Umm, don't use it for pickles either, you usually start with a vinegar at 5%. We mmake them in stainless, next year i'm going to try fermented ones with a brine solution in a crock... regards, Joe

---snip

wine, but >it always bothered me,

Teflon was developed to cover aluminum cooking pots etc, but even this comes off. Dispose of any aluminum in your kitchen/winery, unless you favor this disease ... Altz ...something which seem to favor individuals with high aluminum in their brains. After you do your cooking with cast iron or SS the only chance to get that ALU doze would be in any restaurants where it is still leagal, and everyone use aluminum. Just do further investigations into that rabbit hole if you like.

Fermented shine, ... what was you thinking.

SG Brix

I seem to remember that the connection between alsheimers and aluminium has be disproved, but I still would not make wine in aluminium (or copper). The only metal I would use is stainless steel. I might use aluminium for a very short time ( a couple of hours at most).

That's been somewhat debunked in recent years, although the results aren't totally conclusive:

Tom S

If not convinced then try this;

NIEHS is a bit political, no?

SG Brix

OK, I'm _still_ convinced; this is a controversial topic and the scientific results aren't conclusive. At least that's the gist of _your_ reference. IOW, pretty much the same as mine.

It's pretty much a non issue AFAIC. I cook in stainless.

Tom S