blueberry wine acidity ?'s

the math is per the instructions in the wine acid test kit (sorry i cant help any more about that im too new at this), and as for degassing - the wine isnt fermenting any more would there still be carbonation in it and if so how do i degas? sorry for the question ontop of my other questions Deanna

yes i think you might be right - im use to drinking the cheapo stuff and i checked the abv on it and its only a "whopping 6%" boy i was hitting the hard stuff heh?!?! :) mine does taste very smooth even with the 14% abv just strong for me i guess

Terry Garey's book said to add sugar water to it for a sweeter wine (of which i like) so i did - it is still under airlock so i didnt think it mattered much, so i guess ill just leave it like it is and keep watch of it for another 6 months or so - its topped off to about

i purchased the 'crosby & baker kit' its the only one that my local shop had Here are what the instructions say (in brief)...

type of wine % tartaric ppt sulfuric white grape .65-.75 4.2-4.9 red grape .60-.65 3.9-4.2 fruit .55-.65 3.6-4.2

"fill test tube with 3cc wine, add 6cc water(to darker wines), add 3 drops phenolphthalein, slowly add drop by drop of hydroxide solution (it says 0.10 Normal on bottle) swirling each time to mix, continue to add reagent UNTIL COLOR CHANGE APPEARS in entire solution (color change thoughout the sample means you have reached the endpoint-STOP!! further reagent will deepen the color but give false reading)Color change: pink for white wines, grayish for other wines; exact color isnt important the fact of a color change throughout the sample is the key indicator Note the amount of reagent used to obtain the color change (not the amount left in the syringe) this amount in cc's, multiplied by .25, gives acid content in percent tartaric. the amount used, multipled by

so if i did do it correctly, should i and how do i correct the acidic level to be around .6% or maybe i should just leave it for now??

the instructions note..."these are simply different ways of saying the same thing about acid content of a must (% tartaric vs ppt sulfuric)" so your saying that the comparison chart above is inaccurate?? i dont have ph test strips - is that what you use? i do however have a ph meter that i bought for my plants/dirt with two probes, is it the same thing??

i wish i wouldve know this BEFORE i bought 2 cases of 375ml new bottles, oh well, at the time i only had 3-1 gallon jugs and yes i probably wont drink it all at once (my meade is around 18% abv i'll get snookered for sure) - i'll just use them for sample bottles to friends :) thanks for all your help Deanna BTW whats with poor "pick-up line" that someone posted to me, do you get it often on this sight/forum??

If you want to determine if it's the alcohol or something else that's "biting", dilute (a small glass of) the wine with about 25% water, and see if the "harshness" disappears. If it does, it is probably "too alcoholic" (for your taste, or for the amount of flavour in the wine). You may wish to make lower alcohol wines in future, but they should be at least 10% (starting SG = 1.075), or they won't keep very long.

If it's still under airlock, there should be no problem. However, there is always the possibility that a wine with residual sugar will start to ferment again (especially if the temperature is increased), since it only takes one yeast cell to create a few million. Commercial wineries will sterile-filter to remove any yeast remaining. Home brewers sometimes add sorbate to kill the last yeast standing. You should try to do one or the other before bottling. Or keep it in a cold place, and "do your best and don't worry". :)

I have NO idea what they mean by ppt (percentage points?) sulfuric. Perhaps someone else can elucidate. The figures look like pH readings, except they are NOT what I believe to be the target ranges for those types of wine (whereas the "% tartaric" is). E. g. the target pH for reds is 3.2-3.4, not 3.9-4.2.

Regardless, you are (at this stage) testing TA (or % tartaric), and can ignore the other column.

I assume by "reagent" they mean the [sodium] hydroxide solution? I think the keypoint here is "color change throughout the sample", not just the appearance of the pink or grey colour.

The "amount of reagent used" is equal to the amount you started with minus the amount left in the syringe. I assume the syringe is marked in cc's (or millilitres, which are the same thing). Since you started with 3cc's of wine, you are multiplying by .25 to obtain the correct amount. If you had started with 12 cc's, you wouldn't need to do the multiplication, but you would use more wine and more hydroxide. [The Carlson kit uses a 15 millilitre sample, and 1/5 normal hydroxide, so you don't have to do this calculation.]

Try this: mix up a solution of 10.0g [~2.04 tsp.] tartaric acid in one liter of distilled water. Then take your 3cc "wine" sample from this solution, and go through the test procedure and calculations. The result should be ~1.0 "% tartaric". If it is not, your chemicals are bad, the instructions are bad, or you are not following the procedure correctly. This will also let you figure out what THEY mean by "colour change throughout the sample", so you know what to look for.

In future, try to get the Carlson kit. It is a little more expensive (since it uses more wine and hydroxide for each test), but it is so much simpler to use.

If you did do it correctly, .45% is too low. You should correct it as soon as possible, because the wine will ferment better if it is within the correct range. To do so, take the target acid percent minus the measured acid percent, and divide the result by 0.15. Multiply that by the number of gallons. Add that many teaspoons of tartaric acid or acid blend to the wine and stir well.

If your earlier readings were correct,this is the calculation:

.60 desired - .45 measured = .15 required / .15 teaspoons per gallon 1 tsp x 2 gallons = 2 tsps.

However, since you have two 1-gallon jugs, you would add 1 tsp. tartaric acid OR acid blend to EACH.

DON'T ADD SULFURIC ACID OR THE HYDROXIDE OR THE PHENOTHALEN OR THE TEST SAMPLE IN WHICH YOU MIXED THEM TO THE WINE, AND IF YOU ACCIDENTALLY DO, THROW THE WINE OUT --- DON'T DRINK IT! :)

As I said earlier, pH strips are not accurate enough for winemaking purposes. So, no, I don't use them. Nor do I use a pH meter --- yet. I'm planning to purchase one soon.

If you have a pH meter with at least +/- .1 accuracy, you could use it for winemaking, although +/- .05 would be better. I wouldn't want to use the same thing for my plants/dirt as my wine, but if you wish to do so, the procedures for testing and adjusting pH (instead of % tartaric) have been discussed in another thread (titled "value of a pH Meter", I believe).

What you do is stick the probes into a small sample, and add tartaric acid to the sample until you get the pH reading you want (say 3.2-3.4 for your blueberry wine), keeping track of the amount of acid used. Then you compute the amount to add to the wine. I guess, if you discard the sample, rather than putting it back in your wine, there is no reason not to use your gardening pH meter.

For the moment, let's try to get the acid test straight, though. :)

Perhaps you can return them, or one of them, for exchange?

My pleasure. I hope that I have helped more than hindered or confused.

The one with the 1-3/4" cork? It happens occasionally. This individual has been making obnoxious posts here for a few days. Ignore him. We have complained to his ISP. If they don't take some action, he may get a virus in his email which Norton et al can't detect.

Looks like "ppt sulfuric" means parts per thousand .....expressed as sulfuric acid, rather than tartaric.....common in France.

Ok, I figured out what they mean by "ppt": parts-per-thousand! Similarly, a percentage could be termed "parts-per-hundred".

As mentioned earlier, one ml of sodium hydroxide will neutralize (cancel out) one ml of sulfuric acid, or 1.5 ml of tartaric acid (which is a weaker acid).

So %tartaric = 1.5 x %sulfuric, and %sulfuric = %tartaric / 1.5

Also ppt sulfuric = 10 x %sulfuric = 10 x (%tartaric / 1.5)

So (from our table) 10 x .65 / 1.5 = 4.3 which they list as 4.2 10 x .75 / 1.5 = 5.0 which they list as 4.9 10 x .60 / 1.5 = 4.0 which they list as 3.9 10 x .55 / 1.5 = 3.7 which they list as 3.6

Thus, there is only a very small "error" in the table. It appears they used a (perhaps more accurate?) value of 1.53 for the tartaric:sulfuric ratio.

But, since we are adding tartaric acid (or acid blend which is primarily tartaric) and not sulfuric, I don't know what pratical value the "ppt sulfuric" has.

I wonder what the equivalent ppt of lysergic acid diethylamide is? :)

Tartaric and Sulfuric are used as references *only* when making these calculations. It has nothing to do with whether the wines actually contain these acids in any significant quantities. For this purpose, I suppose your Lysergic could also be used if someone found any advantage in doing so. Tartaric is a "grape" thing. "Country" wines are non-tartaric wines unless the maker chooses to introduce it either directly or by way of products which contain it (ie grape juice, acid blends... etc.), but we still use tartaric as a reference for determining titrateable acidity. HTH

FWIW - Many folks do *not* add tartaric acid in any form to their "Country" wines. HTMS

It was exactly *because* I understood your reference that I took your "question" to be insultingly sarcastic rather than humorous. And I find your "If you know what it is..." comment here to be equally so. But I think you are right. "I suppose we will just have to drop it."

It appears that you totally misunderstood both my remarks and intent in both cases. In context, there was no insult nor sarcasm --- at worst it was a stupid joke.