Conditions to make spicy, peppery red wine


I enjoy a robust, spicy finish to my reds. On a recent tour through Washington wine country, I found a malbec and syrah that were fantastically spicy and peppery. The winemaker said that tannins and yeast were the primary factors that determined how peppery of a finish you get. He was understandably vague, though.
Has anyone been able to consistently (or accidentally) achieve this affect? If so, what grapes, yeast, fermentation temperature, brix, pH, and TA did you have?
Thanks in advance.
-Greg
Reply to
Greg
It is partly the grapes, small dark berries are the best. Also the fermentation conditions. the longer the contact with the skins the more tannin character you will get. > I enjoy a robust, spicy finish to my reds. On a recent tour through > Washington wine country, I found a malbec and syrah that were > fantastically spicy and peppery. The winemaker said that tannins and > yeast were the primary factors that determined how peppery of a finish > you get. He was understandably vague, though. > > Has anyone been able to consistently (or accidentally) achieve this > affect? If so, what grapes, yeast, fermentation temperature, brix, > pH, and TA did you have? > > Thanks in advance. > > -Greg
Reply to
Droopy
It is partly the grapes, small dark berries are the best. Also the fermentation conditions. the longer the contact with the skins the more tannin character you will get. > I enjoy a robust, spicy finish to my reds. On a recent tour through > Washington wine country, I found a malbec and syrah that were > fantastically spicy and peppery. The winemaker said that tannins and > yeast were the primary factors that determined how peppery of a finish > you get. He was understandably vague, though. > > Has anyone been able to consistently (or accidentally) achieve this > affect? If so, what grapes, yeast, fermentation temperature, brix, > pH, and TA did you have? > > Thanks in advance. > > -Greg
Reply to
Droopy
"spicy" and "peperry", to me, are not so much associated with winemaking techniques - but more to do with variety. For instance, Zinfandel, Mourvedre, Carignane, and, to a lesser extent, Syrah, can be managed (in the vineyard) to produce wines with those qualities. Whereas I donlt think anyone will ever get them out of Merlot. Grenache is also "spicy" in that it can elicit that herbal character so prized in some of the Cotes du Rhone wines. Assuming that the grapes already have the character you're after, then some vinification considerations that might accentuate them include; harvest decisions (ensuring ripeness), longer, slower primary - possibly with extended skin contact, blending to accentuate those flavors (such as with the complex Rhone wines - Grenache, Syrah, Mourvedre, etc). Other than that - maybe someone else has some ideas. >I enjoy a robust, spicy finish to my reds. On a recent tour through > Washington wine country, I found a malbec and syrah that were > fantastically spicy and peppery. The winemaker said that tannins and > yeast were the primary factors that determined how peppery of a finish > you get. He was understandably vague, though. > > Has anyone been able to consistently (or accidentally) achieve this > affect? If so, what grapes, yeast, fermentation temperature, brix, > pH, and TA did you have? > > Thanks in advance. > > -Greg >
Reply to
Ric
I was at Presque Isle the other day and the woman helping me knew I liked big reds, she asked if I liked peppery? I said of course. She then poured me out a taste of a new local wine made with a grape grown within the area (Erie, PA). The hybrid name is NY73, something with chancellor and now something else too. It was recently named "Noiret" and it is the most peppery I have ever tasted and it was fantastic. This was a 2005 and it WILL age well. I hope it has a good season next year as I will replace my batch of DeChaunac with Noiret for sure. This stuff was off the charts for North East dry reds! Greg, Erie, PA >I enjoy a robust, spicy finish to my reds. On a recent tour through >Washington wine country, I found a malbec and syrah that were >fantastically spicy and peppery. The winemaker said that tannins and >yeast were the primary factors that determined how peppery of a finish >you get. He was understandably vague, though. > >Has anyone been able to consistently (or accidentally) achieve this >affect? If so, what grapes, yeast, fermentation temperature, brix, >pH, and TA did you have? > >Thanks in advance. > >-Greg
Reply to
Hoss
Greg - I grow Noiret (it was just recently given a name to replace NY73). It does make a very good red wine. Here in the KC area I don't harvest with brix much above 20 but acid does drop down to the 0.7% range so it's a great hybrid to have in your vineyard. I usually blend with Baco Noir but this year I'm making a straight Noiret as well as the blend. I'm a big fan also. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA >I was at Presque Isle the other day and the woman helping me knew I > liked big reds, she asked if I liked peppery? I said of course. She > then poured me out a taste of a new local wine made with a grape grown > within the area (Erie, PA). The hybrid name is NY73, something with > chancellor and now something else too. It was recently named "Noiret" > and it is the most peppery I have ever tasted and it was fantastic. > This was a 2005 and it WILL age well. I hope it has a good season > next year as I will replace my batch of DeChaunac with Noiret for > sure. This stuff was off the charts for North East dry reds! > > Greg, Erie, PA
Reply to
William Frazier
William, What PH do the NY73 grapes get to?? Is 20 brix the norm for those grapes or is the growing season to cool in KC? What's the average day of bud break and first fall frost in the KC area? When do you usually harvest them? Bob > Greg - I grow Noiret (it was just recently given a name to replace NY73). > It does make a very good red wine. Here in the KC area I don't harvest with > brix much above 20 but acid does drop down to the 0.7% range so it's a great > hybrid to have in your vineyard. I usually blend with Baco Noir but this > year I'm making a straight Noiret as well as the blend. I'm a big fan also. > > Bill Frazier > Olathe, Kansas USA > > "Hoss" wrote in message > news:0m89h2t5h47r02ui6s5onnppvp1vbnlort@4ax.com... > >I was at Presque Isle the other day and the woman helping me knew I > > liked big reds, she asked if I liked peppery? I said of course. She > > then poured me out a taste of a new local wine made with a grape grown > > within the area (Erie, PA). The hybrid name is NY73, something with > > chancellor and now something else too. It was recently named "Noiret" > > and it is the most peppery I have ever tasted and it was fantastic. > > This was a 2005 and it WILL age well. I hope it has a good season > > next year as I will replace my batch of DeChaunac with Noiret for > > sure. This stuff was off the charts for North East dry reds! > > > > Greg, Erie, PA
Reply to
doublesb
Bob - It certainly gets hot enough in KC...this summer it was too hot. Temps between 90 and 100F for several weeks and I believe this hurt sugar production in all my grapes. I noted bud swelling for Noiret April 7th. They were in bloom May 21st and veraison started July 5th. I spur prune these vines and had 30 shoots per vine. I cluster thinned to NMT two clusters per shoot. This year there were 14.2 lbs/vine.These are large grapes...about the size of Chambourcin. I let them hang until I see some berries starting to raisin up. Here's some harvest data; 2003-August 22nd, 20.4 brix, 3.71 pH, 0.68%TA 2004-September 22nd, 19.5 brix, 3.54 pH, 0.72%TA 2005-September 6th, 18.6 brix, 3.50 brix, 0.83%TA 2006-August 13th, 18.3 brix, 3.34 pH, 0.77%TA Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA > William, > > What PH do the NY73 grapes get to?? Is 20 brix the norm for those > grapes or is the growing season to cool in KC? What's the average day > of bud break and first fall frost in the KC area? When do you usually > harvest them? > > Bob
Reply to
William Frazier
Thanks William. It's amazing , you have a month longer growing season in KC than I do but because of the heat you actually lose weeks. I think your right about the heat. Here in the NE the temps have been pretty good the last few years. Actually, this year is turning out better than I had thought. We've had planty of rain and we'll see how the next month goes. SO far so good. Just one question, why did you harvest this year so early in August? Bob > Bob - It certainly gets hot enough in KC...this summer it was too hot. > Temps between 90 and 100F for several weeks and I believe this hurt sugar > production in all my grapes. > > I noted bud swelling for Noiret April 7th. They were in bloom May 21st and > veraison started July 5th. I spur prune these vines and had 30 shoots per > vine. I cluster thinned to NMT two clusters per shoot. This year there > were 14.2 lbs/vine.These are large grapes...about the size of Chambourcin. > I let them hang until I see some berries starting to raisin up. Here's > some harvest data; > > 2003-August 22nd, 20.4 brix, 3.71 pH, 0.68%TA > 2004-September 22nd, 19.5 brix, 3.54 pH, 0.72%TA > 2005-September 6th, 18.6 brix, 3.50 brix, 0.83%TA > 2006-August 13th, 18.3 brix, 3.34 pH, 0.77%TA > > Bill Frazier > Olathe, Kansas USA > > wrote in message > news:1159021564.567029.97860@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > William, > > > > What PH do the NY73 grapes get to?? Is 20 brix the norm for those > > grapes or is the growing season to cool in KC? What's the average day > > of bud break and first fall frost in the KC area? When do you usually > > harvest them? > > > > Bob
Reply to
doublesb
I picked the Noiret because they were at least 18 brix, TA was below 0.8% and mainly because some rot was starting in clusters and some grapes were starting to wrinkle up. If the grapes had stayed in good shape I would not have picked. Chambourcin, growing in the next row, were perfect this year and I picked them September 8th at 21 brix, pH 3.26 and TA 0.78%. They were full of juice. But, I know others here in the KC area that let them hang longer. I believe Noiret is just an earlier grape. Bill Frazier > Thanks William. > > It's amazing , you have a month longer growing season in KC than I do > but because of the heat you actually lose weeks. I think your right > about the heat. Here in the NE the temps have been pretty good the last > few years. Actually, this year is turning out better than I had > thought. We've had planty of rain and we'll see how the next month > goes. SO far so good. Just one question, why did you harvest this year > so early in August? > > Bob >> Bob - It certainly gets hot enough in KC...this summer it was too hot. >> Temps between 90 and 100F for several weeks and I believe this hurt sugar >> production in all my grapes. >> >> I noted bud swelling for Noiret April 7th. They were in bloom May 21st >> and >> veraison started July 5th. I spur prune these vines and had 30 shoots >> per >> vine. I cluster thinned to NMT two clusters per shoot. This year there >> were 14.2 lbs/vine.These are large grapes...about the size of >> Chambourcin. >> I let them hang until I see some berries starting to raisin up. Here's >> some harvest data; >> >> 2003-August 22nd, 20.4 brix, 3.71 pH, 0.68%TA >> 2004-September 22nd, 19.5 brix, 3.54 pH, 0.72%TA >> 2005-September 6th, 18.6 brix, 3.50 brix, 0.83%TA >> 2006-August 13th, 18.3 brix, 3.34 pH, 0.77%TA >> >> Bill Frazier >> Olathe, Kansas USA >> >> wrote in message >> news:1159021564.567029.97860@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> > William, >> > >> > What PH do the NY73 grapes get to?? Is 20 brix the norm for those >> > grapes or is the growing season to cool in KC? What's the average day >> > of bud break and first fall frost in the KC area? When do you usually >> > harvest them? >> > >> > Bob >
Reply to
William Frazier

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