Problem growing grapes in Metro areas.

Just a thought, have you considered setting up a fan system to help air flow?

Also, you may be interested in Jeff Chorniak's "microvinyard" web site:

---Greg

"Tim McNally" wrote> In looking through a Double A catalogue, I see where GR73 is

vines without replanting?

Tim - I tried a grafting experiment this spring. I took a short course on the subject at SMSU Mountain Grove, MO. In November I took cuttings of Vignoles from a local vineyard. These were stored at 35 to 40F, wrapped in moist paper and plastic. Last spring, as soon as my old Leon Millot vines pushed their first shoots, I cleft grafted the Vignoles shoots onto the LM roots. Thought I did all the same but only 6 of 24 grafts produced a new vine. These new vines are now 6 feet tall with cordons forming so if you do it right the results are amazing. I'll get grapes off the grafted vines next year.

That idea about using a fan is interesting. One golf course I play here in the KC area uses industrial strength fans to move air across a couple of greens that are in a closed area with stagnant air. I hate the thought of cutting off those Chambourcin vines. Here, in our area, Chambourcin makes one of the finest red wines.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

I use nova, mancozeb, and captan in a rotating fashion. The strength is about 1 tablespoon per gal. I start with captan when the shoots are about 6 inches long. Then 10 days later. After that, 2 weeks or longer apart if we have had no rain. I spray after every 1" of rain if it doesn't make it to appropriate intervals. I don't use sulfur as I read chambourcin doesn't tolerate it. The only disease that is killing me is black rot. Anthracnose is similar, but I have had no problem controlling it. People claim nova is a cure-all for black rot, but I think they really have anthracnose which it does stop in its tracks. Tim

Tim,

I think that you could improve your spraying and here's how.

Captan is ONLY good for phomopsis cane and Downey. So theoretically if you used captan in it's turn in the rotation , say 10 days after you sprayed Nova and then it didn't rain for 2 weeks youd have NO protection against black rot for over a month!

I'd recommend Captan when shoots are 1 inch and 5 inches then switch to mancozeb. I'd use Nova when the shhots were 10 inches long then mancozeb on the spray BEFORE the pre-bloom spray. The pre-bloom and post bloom sprays NEED to be Nova. I think you'd see a big difference and you'd only use the Nova 3 times.

I think you just got caught in the wrong rotation and Captan is useless against Black rot.

Bob

Oh, another thing there are other chemicals you can use like ABOUND but it's expensive initially BUT would probably last you a lifetime. Also, don't even think of replacing Chambourcin with GR7. GR7 is awful.

Bob

Bob another thing I am doing is moving my budding spurs to 8'. The fruit should hang at about 6'. I think the air flow may be better. GR7 isn't the same thing as GR73 is it? Tim

Tim,

You must be a tall guy. I think the higher off the ground the more air "space" you will have underneath to facilitate air flow. I understand fully what your going through but don't give up. You haven't been dealt the best hand as far as climate is concerned being in the city and all, BUT, that will make it all the more satisfying if you can pull off. This will be the BEST learning experience you will have because I believe you never fully understand something until something goes wrong and you have to fix it. I would also space the shoots so the leaves don't "nest". I also go through my Chamboucin and cluster thin to 1 cluster per shoot and 15-20 bunches per vine. I probably will thin again at veraison.

Bob

Does all the thinning you do lead to excessive vigor? Just curious. I have head that the way to control excessive vigor is to hang more fruit. Some, like Dr. Smart believe that wine quality does not suffer by hanging more fruit in situations in which there is excessive vine vigor.

Paul,

No, I don't find vigor to be a problem. I cluster thin before bloom so the vine seems to compensate and the berry set seems to be better for the remaining bunches. I also KNOW that my vines can't ripen a full Chambourcin crop, so I HAVE to cluster thin. In the Northeast , most harvests are right before frosts with late ripening varieties so the vines never really are able to rest and store all the carbs that they are able to do in SE Aus to make them more winter hardy.. I also really don't think Dr. Smart's book applies to the Northeast US. In southeast Australia , the climate is ALOT MORE favorable to grapes. I take my growing techniques from Bob Pool and the late Nelson Shaulis from Cornell. Shaulis believed vine size was key to winter hardiness. I grow my vines for next year and whatever that means for grape quality this year , so be it. I feel if you don't do that, when you get a couple of winters in a row like last year you'll be put back 3 years when you need to start replacing vines. If the grapes aren't quite ripe this year there are TONS of winemaking tricks and styles that will compensate for that. Actually, thats probably the biggest part for me, deciding the wine style just before the grapes are harvested . As Frank Zappa once said, a cow don't make ham ;.

Bob

Thanks for the information I have heard that cluster thinning before bloom is best - like you are doing. I also know that Chambourcin will overcrop - with three clusters per shoot.

Where abouts do you live? I live in north central Maryland.

Does that mean go for the biggest vine you can grow? Not criticizing, just curious. How long do your shoots normally grow?

I agree. You have to think a year or more in advance.

Have you ever made a Rose' from your Chambourcin? I am considering it this year. It would seem that taking the juice off immature seeds (which might be the case this year) would improve the overall quality.

Paul

Paul, I live 50 miles north of NYC. I would say our growing season is almost

3 weeks shorter than just 30 miles south of here. I'm also in a frost pocket so should I say more. I know I'm probably out of range for Chambourcin BUT the wines have turned out pretty good. The color is a REALLY DEEP red and I only keep it on the skins for 5 days. As far as vine size is concerned I keep as much foilage as possible that recieves sunlight EVEN IF the shoot doesn't have any grapes on it. I use at least 3 trunks and a high GDC training system. The GDC allows you more wood and leaves for more sunlight interception. Very little sunlight hits my vineyard floor. Actually it's closer to none.

I find because of the frost pocket we get a bigger difference between daytime highs and nighttime lows in my yard which makes for the deep red color. I have had Chamboucins from Jersey which were on the skins for 30 days which weren't as dark as my juice right out of the CRUSHER!.

BOb