starting off with a kit wine

Hello:

I have a lot of questions!

I am interested in learning to make wine, and started New Year's Eve with a Brew King Vintner's Reserve Cabernet kit. I made it according to the instructions included with the concentrate, and it seems to be doing well so far - weird how I like just sitting next to it listening to the airlock bubble.

The instructions say I'm supposed to rack to a secondary fermenter for more fermenting, then stabilize with metabisulphite and sorbate and add chitosan, top it off and then let it clarify, then bottle. I've read some references to letting the wine bulk age before bottling. Does this mean that I would stabilize/clarify, then rack to another carboy for bulk aging, and then bottling? Can anyone give me a recommended time frame for the bulk aging? Any potential mistakes to try to avoid by doing this?

My local brewstore has the Brew King Selection Series concentrates on sale, and I have heard that these are significantly better in quality than the Vintner's Reserve and worth the extra price. Have y'all found this to be true?

I'd like to purchase one of the Vintner's Reserve kits, probably a red wine. What other recommendations do you have for fiddling with these kits to possibly get a better finished product? I've heard to make five gallons instead of six for more flavor, is this a good idea? Should I try a different strain of yeast than the Premier Cuvee which is what I think the majority of this brand's kits are packaged with? Ferment at other than recommended temperatures?

I'd appreciate any ideas on how to tweak these kits, or even advice on what NOT to do!

Thanks, Theresa

Reply to
Theresa
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Theresa, Welcome. I don't do wine kits, but I do understand the fascination with listening/watching the bubbling in the airlock. My daughters used to tease me about that all the time. Others, who do kits, will respond I'm sure. Darlene

Reply to
Dar V

Isn't it great? Welcome to the club!!!

Usually we carry out the initial vigorous fermentation in a bucket or other relatively open container. Since you have an airlock I wonder if you already have it in a carboy? If so, you can leave it there until fermentation stops. Otherwise, you should rack it when fermentation slows, but is not over. At this stage there is lots of CO2 being produced to protect your wine, so I would not worry too much about air. However, once fermentation slows or stops, the most important thing you can do is minimize air exposure wherever possible. When you rack to a carboy, make sure it is filled up to within and inch or two of the top. I usually rack them into smaller and smaller carboys as I do subsequent rackings to keep it topped up.

If you are making a dry wine -- there is NO need to add sorbate. Only add the sulfite. If you want a sweeter wine - and plan to add sugar at the end or try to stop fermentation while there is sugar left, then you need to add sorbate. In both cases, you will need the sulfite.

I don't know - perhaps others can comment. But, a general rule of thumb is - "you get what you pay for".

Since this is your first time --- I would follow the kit instructions to the letter. Although I would not add sorbate if all the sugar has fermented out and it is dry and stable. Also, I would probably bulk age it longer than is recommended.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Reply to
Greg Cook

Theresa! Isnt that th most awesome thing to hear ? All that life created in a 6 gal. carboy that eventually going to give you a buzz!! Anyway, as a new winemaker myself, your questions are nothing new here and most can be answered by simply going thru the archives . I made a Merlot for my first wine early last year. The kit was from Brew King and I finally got to sample some at christmas time. It came out great and gave me enough inspiration to experiment with a strawberry wine and a cabernet , both made from scratch. From scratch meaning starting off with pure natural juice and Jacks web site. With the kit: I started in Feb and had my first glass Dec.20th. Mistakes learned with a it? Used the same type of wine you are making to top off the carboys instead of water. The Merlot came out nice, dry BUT lacking a bit of body and bite. When mixed with a commercial table wine all was forgiven. Don't be in a great big rush to rack, rerack and rack again. After the primary fermentation takes place and you rack for the first time, let it sit and forget about it for a while. This is the hardest part. Once you get over those cute little bubbles coming up thru the airlock it becomes easier. Catologues from grape and granary and e.c. kraus are also very,very big helps.

Reply to
ineedabiggaboat

Theresa...welcome to the fraternity.

My advice to a first timer is not to play with the first couple of kits too much. Stick to the instructions pretty closely.

Do you have access to a filter? If so, do you plan to filter? This affects the bulk aging/clearing.

For a first kit, I would suggest adding two weeks after the clearing is addded. Then filter and bottle. Start drinking in 2-3 months.

If not filtering. Rack to another carboy 2-3 weeks after clearing. Wait another 2-3 weeks and then rack again. Perhaps do it again before bottling. Again 2-3 months before drinking.

Yes, the Selection kits make a better wine. They are also more worthy of bulk aging.

Good luck, and have fun, Steve

Reply to
Steve Waller

Theresa, The best advice I can give you is to go to

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and click on the "Groups" tab at the top. Then click on the "Advanced Search" to the right of the search button. In the resulting form you can search for any keywords you can think of and limit it to this forum by entering rec.crafts.winemaking in the newsgroup field. You will find tons of reading by just searching on words and strings like "yeast", "bulk aging", "kits" etc.

You might consider making your first kit exactly by the directions. If you really want to gently tweak it you could consider letting it ferment out longer in the carboy to ensure it's dry, skip the potassium sorbate and then bulk age it for a few months while stabilized with potassium metabisulfite and topped up. Search on keywords from the previous sentences.

Also, there are more than a few web sites devoted to home winemaking:

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Don

Reply to
Don S

Argh! - to clarify, I am currrently fermenting a BK Vintner's Reserve Cabernet kit, and I am LOOKING to purchase a BK Selection series kit (which is less concentrated and more expensive)

Theresa

Reply to
Theresa

Thanks for the reply, Greg. A few follow up questions:

relatively open container. Since you have an airlock I wonder if you already have it in a carboy? >>If you are making a dry wine -- there is NO need to add sorbate. Only add the sulfite>>Since this is your first time --- I would follow the kit instructions to the letter. Although I would not add sorbate if all the sugar has fermented out and it is dry and stable. Also, I would probably bulk age it longer than is recommended.

Reply to
Theresa

Welcome to the hobby, Theresa.

You are right, the sound is mesmerizing. Listening to it is almost like meditation. Then it skips a beat and you total attention goes to the airlock to see if it has stopped even though you know it has not. I don't know if it is good for your heart or bad?

This is your first batch so follow your instructions exactly, even down to when to bottle. Bulk aging is done as the last step before bottling but leave bulk aging for latter experiments. This is your first batch and you need something to drink to encourage you to continue. I can wait for two or

3 years of bulk aging but I have about 150 gals from different years aging and 150 bottles read to drink. It will be good enough after a couple of months. Yes it will be better after a year but by thing you will have more going and can afford to wait.

Why is the sorbate included when it may not be needed? The kits are made for casual wine makers who just do it by the numbers. Many have noting but the basic equipment, not even a hydrometer. Sometimes a wine will stick, which means that it stops fermenting before the sugar is all gone. With a hydrometer you can detect when this has happened. If the wine is truly dry, you do not need sorbate. But if it has stuck with a little sugar left, there is the possibility that it may start up again 6 months later. If it has been bottled, the bottles can explode. The sorbate is insurance that this will not happen. If you are truly new to the hobby I recommend that you include the sorbate. Once you get into things you will learn when it is safe to not use it.

Don't be sorry for asking questions. When you are starting everything seems daunting. The only stupid question is the one you do not ask. But pick up a good beginners book on wine making. You will enjoy reading it and you will learn the basic steps. I recommend C.J.J. Berry's "First Steps in Winemaking". It is a classic but there are others.

Ray

Reply to
Ray

Theresa, I advise you and any kit winemaker to read my comments in the December 8th and December 18th entries of my wineblog at

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The "Extended Instructions..." in the December 18th entry are modifications of those devised by Ed Goist and posted here at r.c.w. on March 31st, 2000. A link to Ed's orginal instructions is at the end of my entry.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page

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Reply to
Jack Keller

I forgot about Jack's wineblogs on this topic. That is a great resource to help you.

Bulk aging simply means storing it all together in one carboy. That means anything after fermentation is done is considered "bulk aging". In terms of racking, soon after fermentation, I find it is necessary to rack and again about a month later. If you add clarifiers, you may need to rack soon after the clarifier settles. After that, I rack only rarely - but you will see sediment continue to fall probably. When sediment no longer accumulates, it really doesn't need to be racked but simply aged in the carboy.

Every time you rack your wine, you expose it to some air. The sulfite helps to protect it from oxidation, so it everytime you rack, your sulfite levels go down. Therefore, they need to be replaced. A general rule of thumb for those who don't have SO2 testing items (and one I have followed successfully) is to add sulfite on every other racking and right before bottling. The amount to add would be 1 campden tablet per gallon or about

0.5 g per gallon.
Reply to
Greg Cook

Hello there Theresa Most of what has been said is Ok but can be a bit overpowering! My main recommendation for your first few kits is NOT TO TWEAK

I have been making wine of all kinds on a very small scale for quite a while. I make more kit wines these days because of lack of space -- about 60 gallons ( imp) every year. and about 20 gallons of fruit wines.

With your first kit I recommend absolutely that you follow the kit instructions implicitly. The kits are made to be fairly foolproof and the methodology is designed to produce a drinkable wine in the stated time. So please do it that way.You will enjoy it! Don't "fiddle" with it --- it takes a certain amount of experience to make changes and you could spoil the efforts of the manufacturer. Brew King kits are very good value ( I have no shares).

I personally find the Vintners Reserve kit a bit thin -- but it is much better than many others that you might have bought and I am sure that you will find that your first home made wine is excellent! --- I know I did. Mine aged for a whole month in 2 x 1 gal demijohns in the bottom of my wardrobe and it was one of the best wines I have ever drunk!!!!!!!!! ( over

30 years ago! )

Right lets get to the nitty gritty. Go out and buy another kit now! You have mentioned the Brew King Selection kits and I know they are nearly twice the price --- but but but .------ please if you can afford it buy one and get it started asap. You will find it is so much better than the VR and hopefully you can let it "age" just a bit longer while you are drinking your first wine.

A final note. We all read the instructions with a view to making various alterations which will "improve" the wine. If you carry on and make more wine and become as badly hooked as many of us on here you will find that above all the easiest thing to do to improve your wine is to let it sit! "Aging" is the in word and is so fantastically the best thing that you can do to any wine. It fines ( clears the wine ) it degasses, it filters and it magically improves wine for untold mysterious reasons! REALLY!!!!!

Welcome to the club. If you continue life will become a bit more complicated but very pleasant!

Reply to
Pinky

I agree, don't play with chemistry yet. . Until you know how the final result is going to be, you don't know how to tweak. Do be concerned about sanitation and overall good practice. Don't rush a step, but it is OK to let one go some extra time if you cannot do it on the day prescribed.

At the time the kit instructions tell you to bottle, do a racking instead and then let it sit to age a bit longer.

After a few kits and plenty of aging, you will have read and absorbed some good information and then know what, if anything, you want to tweak. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net

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Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

A big thanks to everyone for your help and getting me started. It does look like I could use some more carboys, and space to store them too! Theresa

Reply to
Theresa

ahh.. now you see the biggest problem most of us have here... :)

email: dallyn_spam at yahoo dot com please respond in this NG so others can share your wisdom as well!

Reply to
Dave Allyn

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