How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit

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Hi!

I've made homebrews from kits once before. I read in "beer for
dummies" that you should not add sugar to the mixes, no matter what
is said on the box. The cooper's instructions mention kilos and kilos
of sugar - what is the best method for making this beer yourself?
According to the instructions or with less sugar?

Thanks for any responces,
Marcus



Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit



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Best way? Purely subjective. Kilos and kilos? I think you exaggerate. Sugar is
ok, but not ideal. There are other things you can try. Substitute sugar with
malt (try powdered and liquid), glucose, golden syrup, honey, another can of
Coopers Stout (ie 2x cans of Stout). In short... experiment. That is the great
thing about home brew. YOU can invent it!

Shill #312
--
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
 Homer J. Simpson

Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 19:55:33 +1000, Phil Miller wrote:

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Adding cane sugar is a relatively cheap way of increasing the alcohol
content of your brew, but many (if not *most*) brewers feel that the
flavor and quality of the finished product suffers.

If all you care about is cheap alcohol, and don't care what it tastes
like, then sugar will work.

If you want a quality, good-flavored brew then follow the advice above.
Experiment with malts, honey, etc.

I don't even use sugar for priming- I use either malt or honey.


--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
   First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of
The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode


Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


meddelandet
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So why do the instructions on the box of coopers mention 1kg sugar +
a bit in every bottle?

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Nope, if it's an excellent beer, it's even better if it's
alcohol-free =)

Seriously, alcohol is the worst thing with beer and whisky. But since
the best beers contain alcohol, most more than 6% and even 18%, I'm
doomed to not be drinking beer all the time.

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Yepp, that's exactly the problem. Where do you suggest I start with
the coopers stout homebrew kit? Have you tried it and can recommend
something for this batch? Since one batch gives me 90 bottles (enough
for ½-1 years unless I drink only my own stuff) I won't have many
chanses of experimenting.

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Hmm...Honey and stout does sound like a good combination.

Thanks so far for the response!

M



Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:29:47 +0300, Marcus Räder wrote:

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It's a cheaper way of boosting the alcohol content, some of the kits I've
seen even include the sugar. I have a number of kilo bags of it that I've
never used...probably ought to start putting it in my coffee .

I don't even use kits anymore, I make my own recipes and buy the
ingredients seperately. With all the "kits" I've seen, they are also more
expensive because you have to add in the labor cost of the people who are
putting them together. A further reduction in expense is that I frequently
use my yeast more than once, and I grow my own hops.

The "sugar in every bottle" is to prime for carbonation. Some say it
affects the taste, others say they cant tell- you have to try it for
yourself and see if you care or not.

One bit of advice though- whether you use cane sugar, malt, honey or
whatever (and note that the amount will be different for the different
types), calculate the total amount that you will be using to prime and
instead of dividing it up to put in each bottle, heat a couple of cups of
water (or whatever amount is needed to completely disolve your choice of
primer), mix your primer into it and let it cool to room temp. Then stir
that into your bottling bucket. Make sure it is well mixed but do not stir
so violently that you introduce oxygen into it.

This will make the carbonation rate uniform for the whole batch and lessen
the chance of "gushers" or, worse, "bottle bombs". A small measurement
error spread over several gallons will have much less effect than the same
error in a single bottle...plus, it's a hell of a lot easier than
measuring it out and adding it to one bottle at a time.

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Alcohol free?!? Surely you jest!

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I like my alcohol, but you can reduce the amount of it in the batch by
reducing the amount of fermentables you put in (sugar, malt, whatever).
Naturally, this will affect how it tastes- less malt will produce a
thinner, more watery beer. You can experiment with less fermentable
additions such as steeped grains, oatmeal, etc. to improve the flavor
while not increasing the alcohol so much.

The amount of fermentable sugars in your brew (cane, corn, malt, honey,
etc.) directly correspond with how much alcohol will be produced. Cane and
corn sugars, as well as honey, are more fermentable than malt.

Another factor in how much alcohol will be in the finished product is the
"apparent attenuation" of the yeast you use. Some yeasts will ferment more
sugars than others.

Different types of yeast will also produce different flavors in the
finished product.

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90 bottles? How big/small are they?

I get approximately 54 12 oz. bottles from a 5 gallon batch.

If I drink only 2 a day, and my wife drinks 2 a day, that barely lasts
more than 2 weeks...and I don't see a problem with drinking more of my own
and buying less from the store, we *LIKE* my brews .


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Oh, it is, it is.

--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
   First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of
The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode


Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit



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My $0.02. Old tired yeast need something easy to digest. Corn sugar is the
easiest thing for them, why make 'em work any harder. And the tiny amount of
priming sugar won't effect the taste whatever sugar you use.

Michael



Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit



Marcus Räder;11496 Wrote:
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I've heard that using one can of Cooper's Stout extract and no sugar
made to 10 liters makes good stout. I haven't tried this myself yet,
but I'm going to as soon as I get some more empty bottles.

I have however made a stout using two Cooper's Stout cans and one can
of unhopped extract (to make it stronger). The result turned out very
good, yet heavily hopped.

So if you don't mind lots of hops, you can make your stout with just
the extract. If you want you can increase the amount of water to make
up to 12 liters, and my guess is it will still be good.

And of course you can use two cans to make 20-24 litres and so on...


--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 *
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Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


Marcus Räder wrote:
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You have had a number of good responses, but all have missed the key
point here.  The statement in "beer for dummies" about not adding sugar
is based on a popular misconception held by many homebrewers.  This is
the idea that adding sugar will cause a "cidery" taste in your beer.
This false notion was popularized by Charlie Papazian in his book "The
Complete Joy of Homebrewing", considered by many to be the "bible" of
homebrewing.  This notion has long been debunked as old, stale liquid
malt extract is the real cause of this off taste.

The dummies book tells you to avoid sugar to avoid that taste.  You need
to look at why the kit tells you to add sugar.  Various liquid malt
extracts will vary in how fermentable they are.  Some, like United
Canadian, are very fermentable and will produce a dry beer with no need
to add sugar.  At the other end of the spectrum are those like
Laaglanders that have high amounts of unfermentable sugars.  These will
leave the beer tasting sweet no matter what yeast you use.

Kits that use LME that is high in unfermentable sugar will often tell
you to add completely fermentable table sugar or corn sugar in order to
balance out the unfermentables in the extract.

You can use this information to your advantage to tweak kits.  If a kit
produces a beer that is to dry for you, replace any sugar in it with
malt extract.  Conversely, if the finished beer is too sweet, make it
with some table sugar next time in place of only some of the extract.
It is all a balancing act.

Honey has been mentioned as a replacement for sugar.  It too is also
almost completely fermentable, but will often add flavors that will take
quite some time to mellow out.  By carefully choosing the honey, this
addition can make some very nice beers.

I hope this gives you some background on which to base your decision on
whether or not to use sugar in your beers.  As a side note, almost all
Belgian beers use sugar to give them their characteristic dryness.  Most
homebrewers that make barleywines will often use sugar to help lower the
final gravity.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:35:55 -0500, Wayne wrote:

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Dammit, now look what you've done! I'm going to have to add sugar to a
batch to see if I can tell the difference.
 
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I just count on the hops to balance it. I guess I'll have to do some
experimenting. Oh, the pain, the pain, I'll have to make more beer.

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--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
   First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of
The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode


Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


Zaphod Beeblebrock wrote:

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My own experience is that using sugar (of any type) in amounts up to
20-25% of total fermentables is perfectly fine.  In fact, there's no way
to make most Belgian styles or many British styles without using sugar.
It will lighten the body of the beer, making what the Belgians refer to
as a "digestible" beer.  Without the sugar, high gravity Belgian beers
would be too sweet and thick to be enjoyable to drink.

    --------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 09:04:46 -0700, Denny Conn wrote:

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Ah, that was what I was thinking.

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But I happen to like mine so thick that you almost have to chew them. When
making any given recipe I tend to increase the amounts of malt, sometimes
substantially.

--
            Falcon's Rest
          Zymurgical Alchemy
   First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of
The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode


Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


Zaphod Beeblebrock wrote:

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Weel, if that's what you want, more power to ya!  I don't use sugar in
high gravity brewes like BW, which are supposed to be thick and sweet.
But that's the last thing I want in a tripel...they REALLY need the
sugar.

    ----------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit



Some more thoughts about this matter. Cooper's recommends using a
minimum of
250 grams of sugar with their beer kits, to help with the
fermentation. When
made into a 23 liter batch this should give
approximately between 3,2% - 3,5%
alcohol by volume.

I decided I'm going to make a stout with one can of Cooper's
stout
extract and the recommended minimum of 250 grams of sugar. In addition
I'm
going to reduce the amount of water so that the beer should end up
with the
strenght I want. I'll probably make a 15 liter batch which
should have
approximately 4,9% - 5,4% alcohol by volume.


--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad
spelling since 2004 *
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Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


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Thank you, that helped a lot! Hevimees is from Estonia or Finland? I
think I'll try sth of the same.

M



Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit



Marcus Räder;11565 Wrote:
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I'm from Finland, Oulu to be exact.

I actually bought the extract today and will probably make it tomorrow.
I'll try to remember to post the results as soon as the beer is ready.


--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 *
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Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


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It's bubbling... *excitement in the air*

M



Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit



My stout has now been in bottle for about a month, and the result is not
very
good :(

Overhopped, but not much taste otherwise. I'll leave it for another
month and see if it has smoothed out at all.


--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad
spelling since 2004 *
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Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit



hevimees;12032 Wrote:
> My stout has now been in bottle for about a month, and
the result is not
> very good :(
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> month
and see if it has smoothed out at all.

After four moths in the bottle the taste is just great :) Very smooth
and tasty.
Patience paid off this time, though according to all good
home brewing
traditions, most of my stout has been drunk by the time it
starts to taste
really good...

I'll definitely make this stuff again. In case someone's interested, I
used one
can of Cooper's Stout extract and 250 grams of white sugar,
made into a 15 liter
batch. I'll probably make the next one a bit
stronger with less water.


--
hevimees

* Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 *
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Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


White sugar?  Seems like additional extract, instead of the sugar,
might eliminate what you initially taste and don't care for.

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 04:49:01 -0500, hevimees
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Re: How to make Coopers Stout from the homebrew kit


sounds like you need to brew more beer matee. :) I think you need to =
brew 25 ltrs a week or 50 ltrs per fortnight to get you away from =
drinking your brew before it has hit it's drinking peak. Remember to try =
and get 2 alchol free days per week (or was that 2 hours). All good =
things take time. Since you have no patience, don't hold back mate, brew =
MORE. :)

I'm trying to brew 25 ltrs per week. 23 ltrs for the keg & what ever's =
left over for bottles 2 - 4 ltrs. Those last 2 ltrs are clouds of muck =
but given a couple of months in the cupboard the muck settles and the =
brew is sweet and clear. I'm keeping the bottles as a cross section of =
all my keg brews. One day when the keg is dry and the brew isn't ready =
(I don't have a turn around keg as yet) I'll chill a few of the bottles =
and see how they go. I love brewing my own. costs me under $15 for my =
brew up and it makes me about $120 of beer. as close as anything comes =
to free in my life I reckon. And free always tastes sweeet.

:) happy brewing champs. Sharing beer is bliss, doesn't send the budget =
amiss and me missus gives me a kiss. All my friends love to come around =
for the free piss. They know they have to walk cos I brew my beer like I =
talk, bold n strong. to bad about the beer schlong. LOL Good thing I =
love me piss. Nothing seems amiss. Repeating myself... no thats the =
peppers & sausage. Now off to the work room I'm going to brew a blonde.


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  hevimees;12032 Wrote:=20
  > My stout has now been in bottle for about a month, and the result is =
not
  > very good :(
  >=20
  > Overhopped, but not much taste otherwise. I'll leave it for another
  > month and see if it has smoothed out at all.

  After four moths in the bottle the taste is just great :) Very smooth
  and tasty. Patience paid off this time, though according to all good
  home brewing traditions, most of my stout has been drunk by the time =
it
  starts to taste really good...

  I'll definitely make this stuff again. In case someone's interested, I
  used one can of Cooper's Stout extract and 250 grams of white sugar,
  made into a 15 liter batch. I'll probably make the next one a bit
  stronger with less water.


  --=20
  hevimees

  * Hevimees - bad spelling since 2004 *
  =
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