Good Ale in London - Non pub venues.

Fantastic point.

I've noticed on my frequent trips to the US that they've acheieved the sort of synergy between beer and food, and beer and entertainment that this country is lacking.

In the UK, 'pub culture' seems to be deliberately kept seperate from the wider sphere of activity, and I'm not convinced that is a good thing.

Restaurants generally do not serve good beer, and do not offer beer choice. Similiarly, many pub drinkers have a prejudiced attitude against pubs that try and sell good food at reasonable hours to bridge this gap.

Exactly the same is true of hotel bars, nightclubs, theatres, concert halls, cinemas (which often serve no alcohol at all here) etc.

Granted, it's still easier to find real ale in the UK, but one needs to go to a real ale pub to get anything worth drinking.

In the US, it's no surprise at all to find a restaurant, or a bar in a hotel, or a snack bar at a rail station serving interesting microbrewery ales.

BTN

What in any of the above is not within CAMRA's current remit?

Besides when you say "CAMRA" you need to appreciate that the organisation is a broad church whose members and key players all hold a number of different views. CAMRA members disagree about lots of things, and saying "CAMRA's vision too narrow" is just meaningless.

In message , Cwrw42 writes

Since CAMRA are trying to do this you might want to aim the accusation elsewhere, the wine snobs in the press and restaurant trade we're having to fight might be a better target.

It may be only a minor part of the campaign, it may not have been successful *yet*. It is being done.

Meanwhile both the UK and US have a long way to go to catch up with Belgium, where even McDonalds sold passable beer last time we visited.

I was in Boeblingen, Germany back in the 1980's and MickyD's was selling some really nice Alt Bier back then. Was from a local brewery. You telling me things have NOT improved since then? Sheesh.

In message , Paul Shirley wrote

If McDonalds sold a beer in the UK it is more likely to be a keg from one of the Nationals rather than anything interesting.

It is also possible that in most McDonalds outlets many of the staff would not be allowed to serve alcohol because of their age.

With some honourable exceptions. For example, The Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester, which has two concert halls and a bar serving six cask ales. And the Everyman Theatre in Liverpool has a wonderful, GBG-listed bar in its basement, with IIRC usually 3 cask ales on offer.

Sadly, very few theatres can even be bothered to stock brown ale nowadays, it's all lagerade for the lads or else shorts.

We are changing gradually along these lines - admittedly, the situation is still far from ideal, but food and beer matching seems to be quite a fashionable topic over here at the moment, judging by the press I read. (Where I live - not London - a local restaurant, as in proper restaurant, definitely not a gastropub, has even opened its own brewery.)

This will change soon if the proposed anti-smoking legislation is passed

- it will no longer be possible to smoke and eat in the same venue.

d.

A few years ago a couple of friends and I talked about opening up a city pub focusing on real ales and British cheese, and creating menus around these. We even scouted out some venues for a few months, including the Seven Stars in Carey Street, Holborn. Circumstances meant we never got round to it, though I'd like to see someone try.

Big Snip

I remember many years ago going to the Royal Oak

-- Dave Croft Warrington

The Little Lark in Studley, Warwickshire is GBG listed and regularly has cheese festivals. Recommended.

Still going strong, although unfortunately the lunches are only available Mon-Fri which makes it difficult for working people to sample them.

--

Cor! You would certainly have at least one customer. :)

d.

If beer & cheese are your thing, if you are ever in Liverpool, try the Lion Tavern; GBG & NI listed, lovely pub - with a decent & v reasonable priced cheeseboard & range of beers in Dale St(*), nr Moorfields station (or 10mins from Lime St stn). I think they only advertise the cheese as a daytime thing, but if it's quiet-ish & they can often be persuaded to put a platter together (cheese, crusty bread & pickle). They had a cheese stall at Liverpool beerfest this year & did a beer & cheese fest in conjunction with the Ship this year too.

(*)same street as O'Kells 'new' old pub, Rigby's & the excellent Ship&Mitre

I wonder if Leek Brewery have any plans for a brewery tap or own pub nearby - they now run both the brewery & the Staffs Cheese Co if memory serves. cheers MikeMcG.

I'm smiling now as I remember the indy cinema above the Whitstable Oyster Stores restaurant that served cask Bishop's Finger & even better Porter when it was in season - I looked around one Friday night as a bizarre h*mo-erotic greek-tragedy-meets-italian-gangster-film played on the screen & me & a few mates were the only ones in there & they were all asleep after too much porter, darkness & complicated subtitles - very weird!

The Philharmonic in Liverpool occas serves real ale, last gig I went to they had no cask, but have installed i think 3 cains keg fonts, despite Cains assurances that this wouldn't happen. hmmmm. (nice beer actually, unlike most keg, but would have preferred the real thing) cheers MikeMcG

In article , MikeMcG writes

On this subject, the Refectory at Durham Cathedral sells a couple of bottle-conditioned ales from the Durham Brewery. One is Benedictus (8.4%); the name of the other escapes me.

We called in there earlier this year on the way back from Scotland and enjoyed a really good Sunday roast and these excellent beers.

Also try the Everyman Theatre bar. Decent food and good real ale. No cheese that I recall though!

Brian

I think they do have small cheese menu (amongst the endless menu blackboards) with a few decent choices; they even tell you the cheesemaker, not just the style.

Nice place, late licence, good food, OK beer range well-kept (tho I have a suspicion they use cask breathers, I might be wrong, but I don't see them as the devil's work anyway, just that they prob don't need them - turnover seems pretty quick) cheers MikeMcG

On the subject of theatre bars, and in a neat segue back to the original topic (i.e. London) I hope you won't mind a brief mention for the place I help out at - The Grapevine Bar at The Questors Theatre, Ealing. Three real ales (currently Fuller's London Pride, Fuller's Chiswick and Hog's Back Hair of the Hog) plus a few foreign bottled beers. Website is

Sorry, no cheese!

Martin

BTW I take it we're both talking about the Everyman Bistro (GBG-listed

- in the cellar beneath the theatre) rather than the theatre bar on ground level?

I'm not sure if the upper one has decent beer, etc. cheers MikeMcG.