Bowmore 17 OB and Sig Ardmore 1992

Hi Sean,

I think that as a newcomer, you're doing extremely well!!! Both the Bowmore 17yo and these Signatory Ardmores are malts for genuine aficionados, congrats. And both your Leapfrog and DL OMC Laphroaig are wise picks as well. Who advised you to pick all those? I even think you're ready for some further experiments like:

- Longrows (especially IB bottlings like the various 1987s - Samaroli etc.)

- Glen Garioch OBs (pre-1985 single cask OBs)

- Ardbegs (1972->1975 if possible)

- Broras (1972 was 'the' year)

- And if you like Ardmore, try the 21yo OB 'Centenary' (and skip the 12yo)

My two pence...

Congrats again and santé,

Serge

dans l'article 0o%Ub.191858$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, Sean à snipped-for-privacy@WHISKYatt.net a écrit le 6/02/04 22:15 :

Hello Serge,

I've corresponded with several regular posters in this group, but this is my first time corresponding with you...so thanks for writing. I remember a Lagavulin White Horse post from you earlier in the year (re: Port Ellen)...I'm a big fan of Lagavulin. I bought the Bowmore 17 based upon previous posts specifically addressed to me by Bart, and the Ardmore based upon posts by Douglas Hoyt where he expressed a strong favor for this malt. I've found a lot of great recommendations in this group...I have not yet been disappointed.

Am I the only one who senses FAINT peach in the nose and specifically in the finish of Bowmore 17? I think I scared everyone away with my observations regarding Bowmore 17 (whether my observations were close to right or wrong). Overall, I really enjoyed the Bowmore 17.

Regarding the Leapfrog...my advice came via reading posts within this group. I can't remember specifically whose posts...I'm sure a Google would reveal where the recommendation came from...I just remember reading about the heralded and litigated MMD "Leapfrog" version of Laphroaig...which, if I were a Laphroaig 10 OB fan (which I am!)...I would surely love! So I sought it out. The bottle itself is beautiful...I'm almost afraid to open it. It's a $95 U.S. bottle of Islay. Until now, I've never spent more than $70 on a bottle of Scotch.

Regarding DL Laphroaig...well...before visiting Federal Wine and Spirits (FW&S) in Boston, I had never even heard of Douglas and Laing as an IB...I had only heard of MMD, GM, and Signatory. I spoke with the store manager at FW&S (Joe) at length about Islays and specifically cask-strength Islays. They have a tiny shop...I almost thought I was in the wrong place because there is no sign on the outside of the store (it's in downtown Boston....right in the financial district/Faneuil Hall area)...but it's PACKED with fine wine and single malt Scotch whisky...lined up in three+ levels above the counter...and there is more in the basement (where customers don't typically go)....that's where he retrieved the Leapfrog from. He seemed very knowledgeable about Islay malts...it seems he's a big fan too. In this group (alt.drinks.scotch-whisky) Bart mentioned to me the 'long promised "Cask Strength" ' and the old-stock 10 yo Laphroaig. FW&S said that they didn't expect the OB cask-strength Laphroaig until later in the year. So I asked about other now-available-options for cask-strength Laphroaig....which led him to recommend the DL cask strength...so I had to buy it.

The only bottlings of Glen Garioch I've seen in my area are the 10 y.o. Gordon/McPhail bottlings (or am I confusing these with Scapa?). Any Ardbeg I can get my hands on I WILL. I love Ardbeg 10. I'll keep my eye out for

I've never had Broras. Am I missing anything if I don't ever have one?

I've only seen IB versions of Ardmore here in Boston...but I haven't really searched for Ardmore yet...because I've just had my first Ardmore. After having the Signatore UCF Ardmore '92, I think I'm going to have to seek out more. Thanks for your Ardmore recommendations....if I see them, I'll probably buy them.

Thanks Serge, Sean

lather-rinse-repeat.

I haven't found peaches in the Bowmore 17yo, but I wouldn't doubt that you do. I've never been able to analyze the flavor in a way I was satisfied with. I just find it too complex and too tightly knotted for words. The next time I enjoy it I'll be looking for those peaches though. I have found apricots in some malts, and that's sort of close to peaches...

And I know what it's like when you say, "I wish I could describe the tastes of those malts better than by just calling them 'green'". Glen Garioch, especially the later OB's, have a quality I can't name except by musical analogy: it's not treble, it's not bass, it's midrange - not the strings, not the woodwinds, it's the brass. That probably doesn't communicate well what I'm experiencing, but I'll be danged if I can't find a better way to name it. I prefer solid descriptive references to poetic imagery, but sometimes words fail me.

I had to lay in another bottle of the Sig. UCF Ardmore for the same reason, patiently waiting now for "someday".

That's very perceptive. I've found the same thing, generally. The nose seems to become accustomed to scents quickly and you need either more of the scent to get the same effect, or you need to remove it for a while. I do sometimes shove my nose deeply into the glass, but I use your method first.

Another trick is to put a drop of whisky on the palm of your hands, rub your hands together until the whisky has evaporated and then hold the palm of your hand up to your face as you inhale. This will sometimes reveal more elements but it always makes the whisky seem smokier than it really is. That's how I first found cocoanut in Springbank - other more finely tuned tasters may have found it in the usual manner.

Please do.

Good tasting notes and a good post!

Bart

Obviously that caught my eye. You must know something about their history or bottlings that I don't.

What's the significance of 1985?

Just took me a couple of days to have a chance to read it and reply.

DL bottlings are not distributed locally, so I'm a bit envious. I hope they're right about the Laphroaig CS. I've given up waiting for it, but I'll certainly grab it when I see it.

I don't think Samaroli bottlings are imported to the U.S.

Longrow is a whisky produced at the Springbank distillery but is peated to the levels of a respectable Islay malt. I'll leave it to Serge to describe the wonderful stuff.

Bart

Longrow is my favorate malt. It is produced by Springbank but it is double distilled and highly peated like an Islay. There are only a handful of expressions you are likely to find here in the US--all 10 year olds. The most recent ones are '92 & '93 vintage bottlings that include combinations of both bourbon and sherry casks. There is the '91 vintage with separate sherry and bourbon cask expressions. There are also the pre-vintage bottlings which were separate sherry and bourbon cask expressions. All of them are great. I'm partial to the '91 sherrywood myself, but all the vintage bottlings are excellent. These used to cost just over $100, but now are usually around $79.

The '74 Longrow 25yo was released here about 3 1/2 years ago. It is sublime and one of my all time favorates. It was originally priced around $350-400, and you might still find some around for $500 now.

Independent bottlings of Longrow are very rare here in the US (actually they are uncommon even in the UK). I haven't heard of any sitings here in 4 years, but you can order them from UK sources. Samaroli is an IB that has some of the most wonderful Longrow expressions. I have never seen any of them for sale in the US, but I've ordered half a dozen of them from Europe. My favorate would be their '87 millennium bottling at "cask strength," but their regular '87 12 year old 43% is also great.

If you were to order from the UK, one of the best OBs was a 13yo sherry "Wood Expression" at "cask strength". It is breathtaking. Since Longrow is more often bourbon casked and almost never available at CS, this is one to really search out.

If you have not tried Brora, yes you ARE really missing something. I've never had one that was less than great.

Your friend, John

From where is Europe do you order, if I may ask?

Here's a 10 YO Bourbon cask from a Chicago retailer. The only local supplier (Houston area) that has this wants almost double!

Sam's won't ship to CT, and I was looking for a European retailer for bottlings that aren't released is the US at all.

Thanks though!

Well, They ship to Texas and I'd be happy to ship it to you... We could work something out. Have them ship me 2 bottles, I'll send you 1. I'm a helluva nice guy !

Hi Bart,

Well, I had some wonderful single cask Glan Garioch from that period. The best I had recently was the 21yo 1965/1986 43% OB. Wow! It's also my understanding that 1985 is the year when they dropped the peat level, but I could be completely wrong.

Santé

Serge

dans l'article v8SdnbfyB8W8BbvdRVn snipped-for-privacy@texas.net, Bart à garioch_clipthis snipped-for-privacy@texas.net a écrit le 8/02/04 12:11 :

Hi Bart and Sean,

Well, appart from being a long gone distillery, Longrow used to be a peated experiment they did at the beginning of the Seventies at Springbank. Then they distilled one or several wonderful batches in 1987 again, and then did it on a regular basis. The 1973/1974 OB are kegendary but very, very expensive now.

Samaroli, an Italian bottler/importer, bought almost all casks from 1987. They bottled some from 1998 or 1999 on, and re-sold several casks to other bottlers. Check especially the Samaroli 'Dreams' series - brilliant. Springbank started to sell some Longrow as OB again from around 1999 on. The first botlings were 'no year' ones, and they used to split the batches as 'bourbon' and 'sherry' matured. Later on, they started to vat all casks, like for instance in the 1993/2003 bottlings.

As with some other collectable peated malts (Port Ellen, Ardbeg, Brora...), some bottlings are highly sought after, while some others are more 'mundane'. In short, the higher the peat level (or rather the 'peat feeling'), the most sought after the bottling. I'm talking about single cask bottings here.

As for Longrow, the peatiest version I ever had was the Samaroli Dreams

So, you can't just trust the distillery's name, you have to know which bottlings are good - or rather better than others, as always when dealing with single cask bottlings.

Now, as for how to get all those in the States... I have to say I don't know, but I'm sure some American malt head could help.

Santé!

Serge

-------------------------------- Serge Valentin snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMcalixo.net (remove NOSPAM)

Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open.

dans l'article v8SdnbbyB8UuBbvdRVn snipped-for-privacy@texas.net, Bart à garioch_clipthis snipped-for-privacy@texas.net a écrit le 8/02/04 12:13 :

I usually order from Sukhinder at the WhiskyExchange:

There are also a couple German retailers that I use much less frenquently. For example you can email Carsten at: snipped-for-privacy@t-online.de

Good luck. Keep us posted on what you order and how it tastes!

Your friend, John

Thanks Serge and John for the run down on the various Longrow versions. I appreciate all the good info. Only the first bourbon and then the sherry cask versions have been on the local shelves (and one bottle of the '74 25yo). No vintage editions yet. By coincidence I was at the liquor store when the first case of Longrow arrived in Austin and I bought one on the spot. I took it to my friend Edd's house and sampled it with him and I thought I had found the perfect whisky. We hurried back to the store and I bought another - Edd bought three! Between us they had nearly sold out in a few hours. I think this was sometime late in in 1997, but I suppose I could be wrong about the date. It was at least a year later (I think two) before the sherry version was available locally. Besides the 25yo (locked in a display case and priced as you would expect) that's all the Longrow I've seen. The only change is that some of the stores have recently dropped the prices from around $100 a bottle to $75 - $80.

Bart

Hi Serge,

I haven't seen the '65 21yo, but have enjoyed quite a few 21's from

As for dropping the peating level in 1985 you may be right - I honestly don't know but I thought it was a good bit earlier than that. 1984

I don't really have a continuous narrative of the distillery's history. It's complicated because Glen Garioch seems to have made a lot of different styles of whisky over the last thirty years or so. In the early '90's every different expression seemed like a completely different whisky. And Morrison-Bowmore have never seemed to know what to do with it, treating it like the proverbial "red headed step child".

According to MJ they were producing almost unpeated whisky for blending sometime during the 1960's. But the one I've tasted of those very old whiskies didn't seem unpeated to me. The old bottles show that there have always been a good number of sherry casks around, and sherry casked Glen Garioch still shows up in current bottlings.

From a very old Bushido post I have it that the distillery closed in 1968, and Scotch Malt Distilleries sold it to Stanley Morrison in

From somewhere I have the story that Stanley Morrison sent a maltster trained on Islay who was heavy handed with the peat for a while in the early 1970's, but reined him in after a few years.

A third still was added in 1973. And production often went for blending. At some point some experiments were made at capturing waste heat for a green house (the tomatoes!), and the distillery teetered on the edge of closing during lean times - I think there were some silent years in the eighties but even that I'm not sure of.

It finally did close in 1995, but re-opened in 1997. All effort seemed to be put into producing a bargain malt for the low end of the single malt market as single malts took off, and the 8yo's produced in that period were good values for the money; they would have been worth it even had they charged more. But the 15yo and 21yo seemed to decline and became less distinct, smaller whiskies. The 15yo especially didn't seem (to me, anyway) as much different from the 8yo at all, except for being more than twice the price. I suspect drinkers who skipped the eight and went for the 15 would have been unimpressed or even disappointed - which certainly wouldn't have done the distillery's reputation much good.

Most recently the 8yo has been replaced with a 10yo that along with two more years in the wood shows a bit more finesse - and without raising the price! Which would be all good, except they've dropped the ABV from 43% to 40%!

But with all the different peating levels - high, medium, and low, different owners, mix of sherry, bourbon and plain wood casks, etc. it would be a dream to crawl around the Glen Garioch warehouse a bit. Which isn't really an impossible dream, as the Malt Advocate reported that MB is selling off older casks to retailers for private bottlings rather than marketing single cask bottlings of the older stock now. "Pearls before swine" comes to mind, but that's a little too harsh on MB I suppose... I'd love to hear more about the 1965 21yo, since I'll probably only taste that one vicariously...

Bart

Hi Bart,

See my answers hereunder...

dans l'article snipped-for-privacy@texas.net, Bart à garioch_clipthis snipped-for-privacy@texas.net a écrit le 13/02/04 17:48 :

I've seen several 'Individual Cask Bottling' versions on the shelves here. I have a 1985 (cask 1585) and a 1986 (cask 3065), both sherry versions.

Agreed, but many single cask versions prove that it's a shame. BtW, several single cask Auchentoshans are somewhat in the same vein IMHO. Tremendously good, nothing to do with the regular range.

Some will say you can't be too harsh on MB ;-) Anyway, thanks for your info about GG, there are many aspects I didn't know of. Very useful!!!

I didn't take proper notes last time I tasted it, but a friend of mine wrote this. Beware, it's quite emphatic ;-)...

Quote:

End of quote.

YOU asked for it ;-)

Santé

Serge

Perhaps there were no silent years in the eighties? I believe I've seen a 1987 vintage OB on an auction site on the web, but they were never available locally... Were the single cask vintage bottlings above OB's are independents?

The next day I re-read MJ and see that he mentions this in one of the editions. "Trained on Islay" and "heavy handed" are his very words, but I'm sure I've seen this story elsewhere, in the Malt Advocate, in this group, or on the web somewhere...

I regreted the phrase as soon as I pushed the "Send" button because it could be seen as insulting, but I really only meant it in the sense of, "They don't know what they've got!"

You're welcome. That's about all I know of the distillery's history. I don't think there's much on the corporate website, but I'm not sure... I always get tired of waiting for all the animations to load!

Oh! That really hurts! ;-)

Bart

dans l'article snipped-for-privacy@texas.net, Bart à garioch_clipthis snipped-for-privacy@texas.net a écrit le 15/02/04 14:02 :

Both OB, from their 'Individual Cask Bottling' series.

S.